GM Fares Better than Toyota & Honda with new MPG rules

[Ming]

GM fares better than Toyota, Honda with new MPG Ratings for 2008
2/25/07

From THIS ARTICLE in USA Today, GM's Chevrolet cars appear to be seeing a decrease nearly half the amount of some top Japanese competitors, long considered by many to be the untouchable gods of fuel economy. While I still think GM could use ONE OF THESE to improve fuel economy in cars like the Cobalt, the new ratings seem to be working in GM's favor. Compare the drop in the Camry vs. the Impala, and the Corolla/Civic vs. the Cobalt. - Ming


Source: Department of Energy, Autodata


http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...ids-usat_x.htm

[GotAWD]

Originally Posted by Ming

GM fares better than Toyota, Honda with new MPG Ratings for 2008
2/25/07

From THIS ARTICLE in USA Today, GM's Chevrolet cars appear to be seeing a decrease nearly half the amount of some top Japanese competitors, long considered by many to be the untouchable gods of fuel economy. While I still think GM could use ONE OF THESE to improve fuel economy in cars like the Cobalt, the new ratings seem to be working in GM's favor. Compare the drop in the Camry vs. the Impala, and the Corolla/Civic vs. the Cobalt. - Ming

quite a significant drop in % rating. if GM can get the 4+ MPG for the cobalt i bet you the sales of the car would shoot up quite a bit.

[I-Love-Pontiac]

This isn't surprising at all. GM's engines are usually more torquey, making them less effected by things like rapid acceleration and having the A/C on.

I didn't think the Cobalt would go down that much though. Quite a few people with smaller ecotec powered cars claim to get 40 MPG in real life.

[gopedxr7]

i am amazed how low the cobalt ratings were before this change. it was more in terms of a midsized car rather than that of a compact car.

also are these numbers for highway or city? some of the numbers sound like they are for high way but then also for city. like the trailblazers is highway while the civics rating sounds like its city

Alan

[mr_bots]

I don't think it's as much lying. I think it's more that Toyota and Honda purposely tuned everything to show good horsepower and fuel economy within the test. Their designs were meant to take advantage of the previous tests, so when the tests changed it showed pretty good drops because they haven't had time to change their designs to take advantage of the new tests. Hopefully they'll just stop trying to take advantage of these tests to make themselves look better, because when they change the tests it makes them look stupid. But I guess it's Toyota, and they can do no wrong.

[starlightmica]

Those EPA numbers are combined city/highway.

Most of the percentage drops are within a percent or two of each other, just under 10%. Just for reference, when you get your cholesterol checked, what's the error range? 10%.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by mr_bots

I don't think it's as much lying. I think it's more that Toyota and Honda purposely tuned everything to show good horsepower and fuel economy within the test. Their designs were meant to take advantage of the previous tests, so when the tests changed it showed pretty good drops because they haven't had time to change their designs to take advantage of the new tests. Hopefully they'll just stop trying to take advantage of these tests to make themselves look better, because when they change the tests it makes them look stupid. But I guess it's Toyota, and they can do no wrong.

I agree with this. It's part and parcel of marketing within the legal limits allowed. It's smart marketing. Every manufacturer tries to make their product look best. Nobody goes out of the way to make themself look mediocre.

[macphisto]

Toyota and the other imports didn't lie. They engineered their vehicles with the rating systems in mind.

I can't blame them. It's good marketing and a lot of people may end up slightly disappointed with real world mileage from their car, but if they like other aspects of the vehicle then they can be more forgiving.

It happened with the horsepower too. They tuned the vehicles to get a higher rating in the old tests and did get burnt when the SAE revised the standards. The same may be happening with the new EPA regs.

The point that someone made about the torquey engines is true. GM's HVAC system is also known in the industry to be the best by far and has little impact on mileage. I've driven extensively in GM V6s, V8s, and I4s. The cars do about the same with the A/C on as they do without it on. The system is so well designed and it blows cold very quickly.

I do think the American manufacturers have been more driven to tune cars for real world use and haven't geared as much towards tests. This likely is because they already had a large foot in this market. The Japanese probably started this practice when they were a tiny percentage in the market as a way to one-up the Americans.

The new standards for fuel economy and horsepower both limit the potential for manipulating the numbers because both are tests that take real world usage more seriously. It's good for the industry and may help GM in the short term.

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by GotAWD

quite a significant drop in % rating. if GM can get the 4+ MPG for the cobalt i bet you the sales of the car would shoot up quite a bit.

The numbers they used are for the 2.4L - why they didn't use the 2.2L I don't know. The 2.4 has much more power compared to the 1.8L Civic.

5spd Civic 1.8L = 29mpg
5spd Cobalt 2.2L = 27 mpg

Not that big of a difference with both having a manual.

[stevecmh]

Originally Posted by Chevy_Rules

You know the EPA did Toyota's EPA figures right? Toyota has no say in it.......

yes i think it is important that we do remember that fact

[casket_demon]

Originally Posted by Chevy_Rules

You know the EPA did Toyota's EPA figures right? Toyota has no say in it.......

Yeah right,Toyota paid off the EPA.

[asim]

Wow, this is great news that it seems like the domestics generally faired a lot better than the imports on the drop of gas mileage. This is just like the horsepower ratings of a year or so ago.

This proves that the Japanese rig up their cars so they perform well on these tests (gas mileage and horsepower), so they can look better than the domestics.

[Randiglio]

Originally Posted by gopedxr7

i am amazed how low the cobalt ratings were before this change. it was more in terms of a midsized car rather than that of a compact car.

also are these numbers for highway or city? some of the numbers sound like they are for high way but then also for city. like the trailblazers is highway while the civics rating sounds like its city

Alan

See the header at the top of the chart, ratings are for combined city/highway mileage.

[psece]

I don't see how one car company is hurt anymore than another with the new ratings. The perception is that Toyota's and Honda's get better gas mileage than GM or Ford. That perception was born out of Toyota and Honda having high mileage, compact cars in the 70's and 80's. GM and Ford had, by todays standards, huge cars that got terrible gas mileage. While Toyota and Honda have built bigger and heavier cars that now get the same mileage as GM and Fords cars, they still reinforce the image with cars like the Prius and Civic. GM needs the Volt and Ford needs an equivalent to get people to at least think about them as an alternative.

Think about it this way: How many people (even in todays instant information on the internet) look at EPA ratings before they step on the car lot?

More than likely, the thinking goes like this:

I need a car that gets better gas mileage and will look at Toyota and Honda.

I need a new Truck, I will look at Chevrolet or Ford.

[Ming]

Ridiculous on both sides. Time for a clean-up.

Keep the "Toyota Lies!" and on the other side of the argument "You GM fans are ignorant children!" stuff out of this debate. If something someone says is over the top, let it go and take a chill pill. Let the figures speak, and stay on topic. Its fine to debate the whys, but get overheated to the point of flaming neck-veins bulging in your defense/criticism of either GM or Toyota and watch your posts get deleted as a first step.

Warning issued.