GM + Chrysler: What it may look like post-merger

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by t-rex

It's simply impossible to merge two companies selling vehicles in the same segments.

There'd be virtually nothing from Chrysler that could fold into GM's lineup. The Hummer H3 could dovetail nicely into the Jeep lineup. GM sure could use a minivan; and the Journey is an interesting product. Everything else is overlap, and every Chrysler product is inferior to GM's in most respects.

I just can't see any such scheme being remotely feasible. Something tells me such an endeavour would spell the end of both companies.

Agree completely with t-rex....as I usually do lately.

Sometimes I miss the old t-rex though.




That was a compliment, my friend.

[kenman923]

Originally Posted by dufus22

Here is my view of what COULD happen

Pontiac, GMC Saab, Saturn and Hummer would be gone or sold off.

Chevy-keep it the same as it is full line of Cars and truck with emphasis on afforadablity, and vaule

Dodge- The performace division/Truck Division. Have the G8 and Charger Merge into the new Charger. Move The Challenger to The Zeta Platform as a twin to the Camaro. Replace The Durrango with A restyled Arcadia. Keep The journey and move the grand Carvan to Chevy. Replace The Avanger With A new car based on the new Malibu. Give Dodge A facelifed Version Of the Yukon, and Keep The Ram Truck.

Buick/Chyrsler. Keep the buick name in china where it is the strongest, Call The current Buicks Chyrslers In NA. Keep The 300, ditch everything else.

Cadallic leave as is. It's the one divison that has a foucus. Maybe give it a flagship Based on a lengthened LY (300) chassis.

Jeep- Give it the Terrian to replace the Liberty, keep all other products.

So under your plan the Lacrosse will be the new Chrysler Sebring? I think that Jeep should get the Acadia instead of Dodge.

[buildacariwant]

just a bad idea for many many reasons.

but if they must ---- chrysler, pontiac, hummer, saab, saturn (and maybe buick) all killed or sold. pick off the best chrysler platforms for GM, all crossovers and suvs are slimmed down to one version, jeep branded only with trim and option packages to replace the divisions loosing their versions, all trucks are GMC only, and dodge becomes fleet queen to save chevy's image and resale.

the only way it would work is a dramatic slashing of overlap which GM already showed its not committed to doing so whats the point. "merging" two struggling company to make a giant struggling company? WTF

[usa1]

I struggle to understand what benefits, any benefits, and Chrysler/GM merger would have. More redundant dealers. More redundant platforms. More redundant brands. More redundant powertrains. Get rid of all the redundancy? Sounds good, but that's a LOT of work and money to implement and would take years to finish.

In the mean time, GM would be stuck with all sorts of issues to work through. It would be just be more problems to handle for GM management. They've proven they can't handle GM as it is today and a merger would just complicate things further.

Mark

[SierraGS]

A GM-Chrysler merger into GM-C will take a minimum of 8-12 years to fully integrate (based on the successful Renault/Nissan one started in 1999) so it needs to be done in steps and before it starts cutting brands it needs to evaluate the current ones it already has. GM has too many car divisions and will be adding two (2) more with Chrysler and Dodge so at least one current GM car brand has to go since not even the global market is large enough for 12 mid size cars!!!!

Buick Regal, Cadillac BLS, Chevrolet Malibu, Chrysler Sebring, Daewoo Epica, Dodge Avenger, Holden Epica, Opel Insignia, Pontiac G6, Saab 9-3, Saturn Aura and Vauxhall Insignia; wait.... Mazda (6), Mercury (Milan) and Volvo (S60) maybe available so GM could buy them and add three more!!

GM most pressing need is a market leading car in sales and right now that car has to be the Chevy Malibu, GM has to make changes in the Malibu to boost it's sales to the top of the car sales charts and the first thing it needs is to drop internal competititors like the Aura and G6 and focus on brodening the Malibu's market. The Malibu needs to offer the 3500 V6 in an XFE package to make it the best priced/highest MPG mid-size car on the market to go with an improved 2.4L XFE (35 MPG) model, these models would be joined with a 3.6L DI SS model - these moves will double the Malibu sales and ultimately make the Aura and G6 obsolete. On the global front the Malibu replaces the Epica which has not even been able to outsell the Jeep Compass in Europe.

GM needs to cut Saturn by using the same reasoning it is buying Chrylser and merge two weak brands into one strong global one and combine Saturn models into the Saab lineup since Saab is an established global brand, the new 9-4X, SRX, Terrain and Equinox will take many customers from the current Vue making it redundant. The global sales for the 9-4X and 9-6X will be far more than Saturn will ever see in the U.S. market and Buick is a better match for where Opel is going, if GM does not want to drop the Vue it could easily become a Buick Antara or Rainier for global markets. The Audi Q7 sells much better than many think (outsells the Touareg) so it makes sense for the Outlook to be a Saab 9-6X eliminating the need to make a Cadillac Escalade Lambda. Another problem is that Saturn and Saab are directed at the same market (import buyers) and splitting the focus on the same market with duplicate models that are too expensive to be Saturns on one hand and Saab models that are completly ignored by marketing result in what GM has seen from these brands - underperformance.

September sales proved this when GM put on a full advertising assault for Saturn cars and experienced a sales drop opposed to a sales gain in Chevrolet cars with a more modest ad effort, GM needs to learn to read the market and in September the market told GM that Saturn is dead. The entire Saturn brand could not outsell the GMC Sierra in spite of more marketing and having a lineup better suited to high gas prices - the market told GM in no uncertain terms that it will buy Sierra trucks before it will move from the Malibu to the Aura and gave GM no choice but to merge Saturn and Saab into one line of:

Sky = AeroX
Astra = 9-3 (next Gen)
Aura = 9-5
Vue = 9-4x
Outlook = 9-6x

This leaves GM (3) channels allowing GM to match Buick with Opel on a global basis since they are the established global mid-level brands and build Saab into the global performance/luxury brand it can be making the Cadillac-Saab channel perform better by attracting a broader market and give the channel high MPG Saab cars eliminating the need to duplicate them as another Cadillac BLS fiasco. The best Cadillac-Saab and Saturn dealers can be offered Cadillac-Saab franchises reducing legal issues and minimizing excess dealers.

Chevrolet
Buick-Pontiac-GMC
Cadillac-Saab

Which the Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep channel would join making (4) channels.
Chevrolet
Buick-Pontiac-GMC
Cadillac-Saab
Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep

GM or "GM-C" would keep the following Chrysler models since GM has no competing "new" model giving GMC time to "work out" what models continue to sell and what dealers maintain sales/CSI/SSI targets.

Grand Caravan
Town & Country
Journey
Wrangler
Grand Cherokee
Liberty
Patriot
Caliber
Sebring Convertible
300
Dakota
Sprinter

Duplicate Vehicles like the Avenger (Aura,Malibu,G6,9-3), Charger (G8), Challenger (Camaro) and new Ram (GMT900) would continue in current form until next gen then be evaluated, the Sebring Sedan would become "fleet only" to maintian sales volume for the next few years.

Older Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep models like the PT Cruiser, Aspen and Commander to name a few would be phased out when sales falter (something Chrysler was already planning).

If the Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep models continue to sell well over the next 2-3 years and boost GM-C's market share little will need to be done, if not GM-C will know what models/brands are no longer "paying their way" and can start to cut them as soon as this becomes apparent (there will be surprise winners and losers).

The Buick-Pontiac-GMC is starting to work and GM is seeing an increase in profitable GMC sales with this strategy, G8 sales will increase with falling gas prices and marketing cash freed up by dropping Saturn. Buick would get a version of the Town and Country to be sold as the Terraza in the U.S. and China and dependant on sales the Town and Country dropped and replaced by a new Pacifica based on the Lambda.

Chevrolet, GMC and Jeep would become the global volume brands for Cars, Trucks and SUV's respectively

Chevrolet - Volume Car
GMC - Volume Truck and Crossover
Jeep - Volume SUV

GMC trucks would be sold globally alongside Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Daewoo, Holden, Jeep and Opel/Vauxall where trucks are marketed - only the U.S./Canada/Mexico markets would sell Chevrolet and Dodge trucks. GMC will provide luxury/performance crossovers in the "Denali" trim level while Jeep would provide the "Trail Rated" capable B.O.F. small and mid-size SUV's.

The Dakota would be shared with GMC as the Canyon boosting volume/profit while Chevrolet would get the smaller Colorado sold in the U.S. as an entry pickup to battle Mihindra's future entry and globally as the GMC Colorado. The Jeep Liberty's platform mate Dodge Nitro would be replaced by the Chevrolet Trailblazer in the U.S and GMC Blazer globally while the GMC Envoy would be a platform mate with the Grand Cherokee with more focus on luxury/perfomance with Denali trim - these moves boost profit/volumes while letting Jeep models do what they do best.

GMC would develop the Ute/G8 ST platform into the next Acadia/Escalade as well as Ridgeline competitor Denali XT, while the next Savana would share platform with the Sprinter and replace the Monvano in Europe.

With falling gas prices, a recovering housing market and technology like Two-Mode Hybrid and 4.5L Turbo-Diesel the Silverado, Sierra and Ram models will continue to sell well and produce the bulk of GMC's profit.

GM can drop Hummer (unless a buyer appears) since only the H-3 sells in any numbers but overlaps the Wrangler 4D, the H-3 and H-3T would be sold by current Hummer dealers until a consolidation deal can be worked out with GM-C giving Jeep franchises to the strongest Hummer and Jeep dealers, future H-3 models would be marketed as GMC Jimmy globally and be based on the Wrangler with the H3-T sold as the new Jeep Comanche. Next Gen H2 would be based on the Dakota midsize truck and sold as GMC Safari with an emphasis on luxury (ala LR2 and Land Cruiser) and Jeep Commander focused on all out off road capability.

GM needs to focus more on building market share percentage by maintaining Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep as a separate sales channel for the next 5 years and in that time work to reduce redundant models, plants, engines and transmissions more than eliminating brands as it will lose any dropped brand's loyal customer base which will result in GM losing the market share they should gain from this merger - if in 10 years GMC ends up with the same market share percentage they (GM and Chrysler) had in 2007 this merger will be a waste of time and money.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

GM + Chrysler: What it may look like post-merger

The last 24 hour have certainly brought a great deal of attention to these two Detroit icons.

While pundits and analysts peer into the future, GMI has already gotten word from inside sources on what a "new GM/Chrysler" may look like post-merger.

Well, thank goodness our insider information threads have about a -75% useful utility factor and in practical overall terms are a similarly negative 75% for accuracy.

Is this a fishing expedition or an attempt to demoralize Chrysler - or both ?

Is this insider information....... from Toyota ?

[neqqy]

I just wonder if GM planners know bankruptcy is inevitable regardless of the spin they are putting out to the media. So a proposed merger may be a colossal train wreck by design. IF GM emerges from bankruptcy intact, they can be in a better position to discharge debts, renegotiate contracts, and eliminate redundancy with one less competitor to worry about. Existing manufacturing could be moved to China or other cheaper markets unhindered by obligations.

Merger or no, many jobs will be lost. If the economy gets too bad, the Feds will have to ease up on safety and efficiency regulations so small cars can be made cheaply and profitably in our market. This will eventually help GM out in the short term.

[DonRobbie]

Originally Posted by tripowergto

Chrysler becomes a slimmed down but full line BPG type dealership network existing solely of the Chrysler 300 & T&C, Dodge Ram variants, Charger & Challenger, Caravan, Journey and the Nissan produced smaller car and Jeep keeps only the Patriot, Wrangler and Grand Cherokee. GM-C keeps the already arranged Nissan deal for small cars and to produce the next Titan to help offset costs of the second truckline near term and long term they platform share with GM's next GM900 truck platform. Extraordinary economic hard times require RADICAL thinking. This could work!
__________________

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Stratus replacement off the Malibu platform and some Buicks adapted as Chryslers. I imagine the Challenger/Challenger/300 would move to Zeta post-haste. I could see the Nitro/Liberty getting a Chevy/GMC platform mate at some point. If you really wanted to get crazy maybe the Wrangler underpinnings could be the basis for a next gen Canyon/Colorado/M80 or such a vehicle could be sourced from Nissan.

I think if this goes forward the goal would be to leverage production capacity, administration, and core R&D across more brands. GM has gotten better at sharing platforms without doing straight rebadges.

[AMcA]

No, GM should not use its existing foreign sales network to press for the goal of making Dodge a giant overseas. GM's already working on, and succeeding in making Chevrolet a giant overseas. They don't need any distractions from that task.

If GM buys Chrysler, they're just going to let its cars die, except for the minivans (which likely get rebadged - a Chevrolet Caravan, anyone?) and the Jeeps. The pick-ups, maybe do a badge job on 'em.

But the cars? They don't need the 300 platform. They've got Zeta. They don't need the hideous Sebrings. Or the Caliber. They'd scrap all of that if they combined.

But nobody's got the cujones, or the money to buy off the franchisees, to get it done. Notgonnahappen.com.

[AMcA]

Originally Posted by 1931Chevy

IMO I just hope this doesnt happen because right now GM its like a patient that had a stroke one month ago and its trying to eat a fat burger that could kill him instantly

Best analysis yet of the General/Chrysler merger idea.

[civilzues]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

A GM-Chrysler merger into GM-C will take a minimum of 8-12 years to fully integrate (based on the successful Renault/Nissan one started in 1999) so it needs to be done in steps and before it starts cutting brands it needs to evaluate the current ones it already has. GM has too many car divisions and will be adding two (2) more with Chrysler and Dodge so at least one current GM car brand has to go since not even the global market is large enough for 12 mid size cars!!!!

Buick Regal, Cadillac BLS, Chevrolet Malibu, Chrysler Sebring, Daewoo Epica, Dodge Avenger, Holden Epica, Opel Insignia, Pontiac G6, Saab 9-3, Saturn Aura and Vauxhall Insignia; wait.... Mazda (6), Mercury (Milan) and Volvo (S60) maybe available so GM could buy them and add three more!!

GM most pressing need is a market leading car in sales and right now that car has to be the Chevy Malibu, GM has to make changes in the Malibu to boost it's sales to the top of the car sales charts and the first thing it needs is to drop internal competititors like the Aura and G6 and focus on brodening the Malibu's market. The Malibu needs to offer the 3500 V6 in an XFE package to make it the best priced/highest MPG mid-size car on the market to go with an improved 2.4L XFE (35 MPG) model, these models would be joined with a 3.6L DI SS model - these moves will double the Malibu sales and ultimately make the Aura and G6 obsolete. On the global front the Malibu replaces the Epica which has not even been able to outsell the Jeep Compass in Europe.

GM needs to cut Saturn by using the same reasoning it is buying Chrylser and merge two weak brands into one strong global one and combine Saturn models into the Saab lineup since Saab is an established global brand, the new 9-4X, SRX, Terrain and Equinox will take many customers from the current Vue making it redundant. The global sales for the 9-4X and 9-6X will be far more than Saturn will ever see in the U.S. market and Buick is a better match for where Opel is going, if GM does not want to drop the Vue it could easily become a Buick Antara or Rainier for global markets. The Audi Q7 sells much better than many think (outsells the Touareg) so it makes sense for the Outlook to be a Saab 9-6X eliminating the need to make a Cadillac Escalade Lambda. Another problem is that Saturn and Saab are directed at the same market (import buyers) and splitting the focus on the same market with duplicate models that are too expensive to be Saturns on one hand and Saab models that are completly ignored by marketing result in what GM has seen from these brands - underperformance.

September sales proved this when GM put on a full advertising assault for Saturn cars and experienced a sales drop opposed to a sales gain in Chevrolet cars with a more modest ad effort, GM needs to learn to read the market and in September the market told GM that Saturn is dead. The entire Saturn brand could not outsell the GMC Sierra in spite of more marketing and having a lineup better suited to high gas prices - the market told GM in no uncertain terms that it will buy Sierra trucks before it will move from the Malibu to the Aura and gave GM no choice but to merge Saturn and Saab into one line of:

Sky = AeroX
Astra = 9-3 (next Gen)
Aura = 9-5
Vue = 9-4x
Outlook = 9-6x

This leaves GM (3) channels allowing GM to match Buick with Opel on a global basis since they are the established global mid-level brands and build Saab into the global performance/luxury brand it can be making the Cadillac-Saab channel perform better by attracting a broader market and give the channel high MPG Saab cars eliminating the need to duplicate them as another Cadillac BLS fiasco. The best Cadillac-Saab and Saturn dealers can be offered Cadillac-Saab franchises reducing legal issues and minimizing excess dealers.

Chevrolet
Buick-Pontiac-GMC
Cadillac-Saab

Which the Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep channel would join making (4) channels.
Chevrolet
Buick-Pontiac-GMC
Cadillac-Saab
Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep

GM or "GM-C" would keep the following Chrysler models since GM has no competing "new" model giving GMC time to "work out" what models continue to sell and what dealers maintain sales/CSI/SSI targets.

Grand Caravan
Town & Country
Journey
Wrangler
Grand Cherokee
Liberty
Patriot
Caliber
Sebring Convertible
300
Dakota
Sprinter

Duplicate Vehicles like the Avenger (Aura,Malibu,G6,9-3), Charger (G8), Challenger (Camaro) and new Ram (GMT900) would continue in current form until next gen then be evaluated, the Sebring Sedan would become "fleet only" to maintian sales volume for the next few years.

Older Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep models like the PT Cruiser, Aspen and Commander to name a few would be phased out when sales falter (something Chrysler was already planning).

If the Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep models continue to sell well over the next 2-3 years and boost GM-C's market share little will need to be done, if not GM-C will know what models/brands are no longer "paying their way" and can start to cut them as soon as this becomes apparent (there will be surprise winners and losers).

The Buick-Pontiac-GMC is starting to work and GM is seeing an increase in profitable GMC sales with this strategy, G8 sales will increase with falling gas prices and marketing cash freed up by dropping Saturn. Buick would get a version of the Town and Country to be sold as the Terraza in the U.S. and China and dependant on sales the Town and Country dropped and replaced by a new Pacifica based on the Lambda.

Chevrolet, GMC and Jeep would become the global volume brands for Cars, Trucks and SUV's respectively

Chevrolet - Volume Car
GMC - Volume Truck and Crossover
Jeep - Volume SUV

GMC trucks would be sold globally alongside Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Daewoo, Holden, Jeep and Opel/Vauxall where trucks are marketed - only the U.S./Canada/Mexico markets would sell Chevrolet and Dodge trucks. GMC will provide luxury/performance crossovers in the "Denali" trim level while Jeep would provide the "Trail Rated" capable B.O.F. small and mid-size SUV's.

The Dakota would be shared with GMC as the Canyon boosting volume/profit while Chevrolet would get the smaller Colorado sold in the U.S. as an entry pickup to battle Mihindra's future entry and globally as the GMC Colorado. The Jeep Liberty's platform mate Dodge Nitro would be replaced by the Chevrolet Trailblazer in the U.S and GMC Blazer globally while the GMC Envoy would be a platform mate with the Grand Cherokee with more focus on luxury/perfomance with Denali trim - these moves boost profit/volumes while letting Jeep models do what they do best.

GMC would develop the Ute/G8 ST platform into the next Acadia/Escalade as well as Ridgeline competitor Denali XT, while the next Savana would share platform with the Sprinter and replace the Monvano in Europe.

With falling gas prices, a recovering housing market and technology like Two-Mode Hybrid and 4.5L Turbo-Diesel the Silverado, Sierra and Ram models will continue to sell well and produce the bulk of GMC's profit.

GM can drop Hummer (unless a buyer appears) since only the H-3 sells in any numbers but overlaps the Wrangler 4D, the H-3 and H-3T would be sold by current Hummer dealers until a consolidation deal can be worked out with GM-C giving Jeep franchises to the strongest Hummer and Jeep dealers, future H-3 models would be marketed as GMC Jimmy globally and be based on the Wrangler with the H3-T sold as the new Jeep Comanche. Next Gen H2 would be based on the Dakota midsize truck and sold as GMC Safari with an emphasis on luxury (ala LR2 and Land Cruiser) and Jeep Commander focused on all out off road capability.

GM needs to focus more on building market share percentage by maintaining Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep as a separate sales channel for the next 5 years and in that time work to reduce redundant models, plants, engines and transmissions more than eliminating brands as it will lose any dropped brand's loyal customer base which will result in GM losing the market share they should gain from this merger - if in 10 years GMC ends up with the same market share percentage they (GM and Chrysler) had in 2007 this merger will be a waste of time and money.

I stopped reading 1/2 way thru. you said to combine saturn and Saab? Do you have any idea that Saturn=opel and that in Europe Opel is a step below Saab? keep dreaming.

[FierySolstice]

I don't know why GM would want to add more brands to their already over branded brood. But if they did, I would say keep Jeep and eliminate Chrysler and Dodge. The Caravan could go to Chevy and they could sell the Dodge truck business. They should cut GMC or keep it just professional duty trucks. Saturn should be eliminated and Buick/Pontiac/Jeep dealerships put in their place. Saab and Hummer should be sold. I really don't think Chrysler should merge with GM. Keep the separate. I'm sure another company or some other person would want to buy them. This would be bad for GM.

[DiRF]

Originally Posted by LONGHORN

Dodge will take the place of Pontiac.

2011 Dodge Charger?


...and for the hell of it... 2011 Chevrolet Venture... (Screw the Uplander name)

[adplusone]

The smartest dude in autoblog land posted early this week...

http://www.autoextremist.com/

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by Caleb02

because i dare say what others are thinking.

No you don't.