GM + Chrysler: What it may look like post-merger

[MR.Corvette]

posted by ModerateRight :

Careers are fast and furious, there's practically no loyalty to the company or the employee, and your best opportunities are often with the competition. Promotions that used to happen over a lifetime can happen overnight, and just as easily lost a year later.

It's survival of the fittest and it's BEEN America for decades.


Back to chapter 11, it's meant to help companies recover, not to end them. I don't want to see the big three die, that's my d*mn point – if we hand over cash will things change? Probably not. So won't the same thing happen again? Of course it will – only next time everyone goes home for good.

^ OK, my friend...listen up. I hear & understand exactly what your saying and you ARE CORRECT, as far as you go, BUT....you are not going all the way to the end of the story.

First of all, THIS is the final battle. There will be no reprise. If GM et al are Forced into Chap 11, we can kiss our butts goodbye. Why?
Because Everything that the people of this nation have worked for over the last 50 years will go away. Our ONLY salvation, at this point is the ability to take control of our lives and jobs....and the companies we work for. However, if the Government continues to allow "Import" corporations to rule our markets ...we are done.

Today, your efforts at work earn you no respect because the managers of the company you work for are only interested in a "fast buck"...today !! The hell with the past and the future. They do not care at all. This is the problem, and it is a Social Problem, not a political position. Therefore ALL the work you put forth, dose not earn you a promotion....it gets you FIRED....cuz you KNOW too much.

So, do YOU want to continue to reward that type of stupidity ???

....or do you want to CHANGE it ? Maybe we should just call in ALL the LOANS the USA has made to ALL the other countries of the World....That would pay off ALL the deficits in our budget in ONE DAY !!!...and it would bankrupt their countries !!!...because they are living off OUR EFFORTS.

...and using it against us.

Your move bro !

[gmishistory]

Originally Posted by MR.Corvette

posted by ModerateRight :

Careers are fast and furious, there's practically no loyalty to the company or the employee, and your best opportunities are often with the competition. Promotions that used to happen over a lifetime can happen overnight, and just as easily lost a year later.

It's survival of the fittest and it's BEEN America for decades.


Back to chapter 11, it's meant to help companies recover, not to end them. I don't want to see the big three die, that's my d*mn point – if we hand over cash will things change? Probably not. So won't the same thing happen again? Of course it will – only next time everyone goes home for good.


^ OK, my friend...listen up. I hear & understand exactly what your saying and you ARE CORRECT, as far as you go, BUT....you are not going all the way to the end of the story.

First of all, THIS is the final battle. There will be no reprise. If GM et al are Forced into Chap 11, we can kiss our butts goodbye. Why?
Because Everything that the people of this nation have worked for over the last 50 years will go away. Our ONLY salvation, at this point is the ability to take control of our lives and jobs....and the companies we work for. However, if the Government continues to allow "Import" corporations to rule our markets ...we are done.

Today, your efforts at work earn you no respect because the managers of the company you work for are only interested in a "fast buck"...today !! The hell with the past and the future. They do not care at all. This is the problem, and it is a Social Problem, not a political position. Therefore ALL the work you put forth, dose not earn you a promotion....it gets you FIRED....cuz you KNOW too much.

So, do YOU want to continue to reward that type of stupidity ???

....or do you want to CHANGE it ? Maybe we should just call in ALL the LOANS the USA has made to ALL the other countries of the World....That would pay off ALL the deficits in our budget in ONE DAY !!!...and it would bankrupt their countries !!!...because they are living off OUR EFFORTS.

...and using it against us.

Your move bro !

i hate to break it to you but companies are no longer apart of any nation. Companies are now global, you have ford producing cars in canada, england, germany, austrlia, and the same for GM. Companies today are global and need to think that way. America has not had an American car industry for some time now. Just get on board,

Ford and Gm and Chrysler should all enter bankruptcy and if they exit bankruptcy a leaner company that can compete by throwing out the uaw and other labor contracts then great. Also throw out the pensions and fire GM CEO Slick Rick and his pals to. Also If the big us 3 end up in chapter 7 then so be it, then it was ment to be. It will be painful at first put then it will be better after time.

[MR.Corvette]

Originally Posted by gmishistory

i hate to break it to you but companies are no longer apart of any nation. Companies are now global, you have ford producing cars in canada, england, germany, austrlia, and the same for GM. Companies today are global and need to think that way. America has not had an American car industry for some time now. Just get on board,

Ford and Gm and Chrysler should all enter bankruptcy and if they exit bankruptcy a leaner company that can compete by throwing out the uaw and other labor contracts then great. Also throw out the pensions and fire GM CEO Slick Rick and his pals to. Also If the big us 3 end up in chapter 7 then so be it, then it was ment to be. It will be painful at first put then it will be better after time.

Nothing personal my man ...but that is INSANE reasoning...you do not get it at all. Here's the deal, even if they emerge from bankruptcy, the UAW will Still BE involved in the manufacture of automobiles...there is NO WAY to get rid of the unions, because the unions represent AMERICA....how the hell you not understand that ???...YOU are the one who will lose your job if what you propose is allowed to happen, the UAW will still be in business....so get real pal, they are there to prevent abuse of the workforce by corporations....checks & balances...uh, is not that the ground work of the Constitution ???

Think before you speak...or suffer the consequence of your lack of understanding as to what has been put forth on your behalf, to provide YOU with the life your living.

You OWE BRO.

[ModerateRight]

Originally Posted by MR.Corvette

First of all, THIS is the final battle. There will be no reprise. If GM et al are Forced into Chap 11, we can kiss our butts goodbye. Why?
Because Everything that the people of this nation have worked for over the last 50 years will go away. Our ONLY salvation, at this point is the ability to take control of our lives and jobs....and the companies we work for. However, if the Government continues to allow "Import" corporations to rule our markets ...we are done.

Today, your efforts at work earn you no respect because the managers of the company you work for are only interested in a "fast buck"...today !! The hell with the past and the future. They do not care at all. This is the problem, and it is a Social Problem, not a political position. Therefore ALL the work you put forth, dose not earn you a promotion....it gets you FIRED....cuz you KNOW too much.

So, do YOU want to continue to reward that type of stupidity ???

....or do you want to CHANGE it ? Maybe we should just call in ALL the LOANS the USA has made to ALL the other countries of the World....That would pay off ALL the deficits in our budget in ONE DAY !!!...and it would bankrupt their countries !!!...because they are living off OUR EFFORTS.

...and using it against us.

Your move bro !

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing personal my man ...but that is INSANE reasoning...you do not get it at all. Here's the deal, even if they emerge from bankruptcy, the UAW will Still BE involved in the manufacture of automobiles...there is NO WAY to get rid of the unions, because the unions represent AMERICA....how the hell you not understand that ???...YOU are the one who will lose your job if what you propose is allowed to happen, the UAW will still be in business....so get real pal, they are there to prevent abuse of the workforce by corporations....checks & balances...uh, is not that the ground work of the Constitution ???

Think before you speak...or suffer the consequence of your lack of understanding as to what has been put forth on your behalf, to provide YOU with the life your living.

You OWE BRO.

I'm having a really hard time understanding your post, but I do have a few critical points:

-unions do not represent today's America (other than Detroit apparently)
-making a fast buck goes both ways (employees ride the company long enough to cash in)
-calling in foreign loans would kill us (how much do we owe the world again?)
-reorganizing companies through chapter 11 doesn't kill industries
-your posts are heavily laced with union and GM scare tactics

[gmishistory]

Originally Posted by MR.Corvette

Nothing personal my man ...but that is INSANE reasoning...you do not get it at all. Here's the deal, even if they emerge from bankruptcy, the UAW will Still BE involved in the manufacture of automobiles...there is NO WAY to get rid of the unions, because the unions represent AMERICA....how the hell you not understand that ???...YOU are the one who will lose your job if what you propose is allowed to happen, the UAW will still be in business....so get real pal, they are there to prevent abuse of the workforce by corporations....checks & balances...uh, is not that the ground work of the Constitution ???

Think before you speak...or suffer the consequence of your lack of understanding as to what has been put forth on your behalf, to provide YOU with the life your living.

You OWE BRO.

the unions are no longer needed as their are labor laws now in america. Also the unions have not represented the workers for a long time, they only represent their own COMMUNIST ways, like OBAMA

If the auto industry fails so be it. It was not a valid business for us then, Also should we have a 700billion bail out for the horse and buggy industry too.....

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by gmishistory

the unions are no longer needed as their are labor laws now in america. Also the unions have not represented the workers for a long time, they only represent their own COMMUNIST ways, like OBAMA.

If the auto industry fails so be it. It was not a valid business for us then, Also should we have a 700billion bail out for the horse and buggy industry too.....

So yer saying Obama is a communist??

[MR.Corvette]

^ LOL...ok, sorry if I got a bit over zealous there ...lol.

Just that IF we really allow the auto industry to go Chap 11 it will cost 200 billion in hard cash today, (much more than the "bailout loans") not to mention the loss of jobs around the nation in industries not directly connected to the autro companies.

Things are bad enough without asking for more pain & suffering from the American public...when the real problem lies with the imbalance of trade on a World Market level. Without adjusting the current lack of capital funding, no business in the USA is going to continue much longer.

We have to start somewhere, and losing the Auto industry will be the worst thing we can do at this time. The Company management is not the problem as all the Big 3 have already reduced the workforce including middle management, realigned the models they make to meet market demand and achieved quality production standards surpassing the competition.

You can't get blood from a turnip, and these guys are being asked to do just that...they deserve an opportunity under the current capital conditions to show us that indeed the efforts they have and are putting forth are actually worthwhile. If we cut them off at the knees now,...we will be cutting our own heads off by doing that.

[LT1GMC]

So many are quick to blame labor unions for the mess we are in now, when the fact is the auto companies were making money, and the products Americans liked, UNTIL fuel prices doubled. And why did they double: Not supply and demand from users, not from a shortage, but jacked up prices from speculators who were eager to make a profit for doing nothing but writing and cashing checks. And those jackzzzz are who got bailed out first. More of the rich taking care of the rich, and now balking at helping the companies who employ common Americans, and who also pay the pensions/healthcare of millions of retired workers. (not to mention the taxes that automaker workers pay every day)
Fact #1. Does a non-union make car or truck cost 1/2 what a union made one does? NO. Who the gets that extra profit?
Fact #2. Who pays more taxes, and spends more money on consumer products, which makes it all come round, a non-union autoworker, or union?
Fact # 3. Whose wages help bring the prevailing wages and conditions up for others in simular industries? Could that be union?
Fact #4. What is one of the biggest, most profitable companies? Walmart. What do their workers make? Do they really share the profit? No. Thats one of the reasons unions got started, just ask a coal miner, or steel worker, or other dirty hard labor worker how it was before unions helped bring them up to tolerable standards.
Yes, some of those very jobs were lost to overseas countries. But why? because we allowed countries where the worker is paid next to nothing to compete here.
Fact #5. Someday, the Chinese will not want to work for nothing, then all the stuff we sent overseas to be made cheaply will not be cheap, while we will not have jobs that pay much more than minimum wage. Then what?

[gmishistory]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

So yer saying Obama is a communist??

lets see obama wants to take money from one set of people and give it to another, i would say that is a communist. so yes obama is a communist.

[gmishistory]

Originally Posted by MR.Corvette

Nothing personal my man ...but that is INSANE reasoning...you do not get it at all. Here's the deal, even if they emerge from bankruptcy, the UAW will Still BE involved in the manufacture of automobiles...there is NO WAY to get rid of the unions, because the unions represent AMERICA....how the hell you not understand that ???...YOU are the one who will lose your job if what you propose is allowed to happen, the UAW will still be in business....so get real pal, they are there to prevent abuse of the workforce by corporations....checks & balances...uh, is not that the ground work of the Constitution ???

Think before you speak...or suffer the consequence of your lack of understanding as to what has been put forth on your behalf, to provide YOU with the life your living.

You OWE BRO.

since when do the unions represent americans they dont they only represent their own interests to promote communism and their own personal greed by taking from the coporations and giving the profits of the company to others. If the workers donbt like the pay or benefits go to another job. Companies can get workers by just competing by pay and benefits like they do for non union jobs from mcdonalds servers to customer service reps

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by gmishistory

lets see obama wants to take money from one set of people and give it to another, i would say that is a communist. so yes obama is a communist.

Hmmm....So Robin Hood would be a communist also, though of the vigilante sort??

[TorrentRS]

Originally Posted by gmishistory

lets see obama wants to take money from one set of people and give it to another, i would say that is a communist. so yes obama is a communist.

you're retarded.

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by TorrentRS

you're retarded.

[MR.Corvette]

See that is exactly the type of Political BS that has no place anymore.
If Obama is a commie, then Bush is a Facist...or whatever. It is Pointless Rhetoric...& it serves to dilute & distract people from the REAL Problem at hand. You do everyone a disservice to speak in that way, with no effort made to resolve anything at all.

Truth is we are all Americans in the same ship that is sinking slowly into the deep SEA !...Unless, we start BAILING. Now who did we bail first, ...the damn guys who ARE responsible and continue to be for the lack of Capital Market Funding, Wall Street Bankers !!

Again, they took the money, and paid off thier debts with it, so NOW they claim they can't "justify" loaning ANY of it out to the Auto industry because they are not making a profit !!!!

EXCUSE ME....??? But was not it those Very SAME Bankers who were Not making a profit a few months ago ???....uh, yeah. Now THERE is the reason the present conditions are happening, not due to some political positioning....Get Real.

[Thrash]

Wow, you guys are really getting into this. I do think unions had their place, I now believe they are a hindrance to the productivity of a company. We have a union at my company and there are times the guys on the floor can't do something because it's not in their job description. So engineering usually end up doing some of those things themselves instead. I also don't like unions because if employee "A" does an excellent job at work, I want to give him a good raise, but employee "B", just gets by and I don't really want to give that employee as much as employee "A". Anyway, you can see where I'm going with this.

Take a look at this article. It sort of has you back up for a moment to see a little more of the big picture. This is for any large company, it's not geared for automotive, but it still applies.

http://imm.plasticstoday.com/?q=articles/28619