Glimmers of hope for embattled Detroit

[tgagneguam]

Glimmers of hope for embattled Detroit

By John McCormick / Autos Insider

The headline in this newspaper - Toyota and GM lead in quality survey - said it all. At a time when General Motors Corp. is taking one body blow after another, it was interesting to see that at least the company's efforts to produce high quality vehicles are being recognized.

Though GM did not have as many segment leaders as Toyota in the J.D. Power initial quality study and ranked lower overall, it had more winners than any other automaker. A closer look at the report reveals that much of Toyota's success is based on its Lexus products. This is not to diminish Lexus; winning first place in five market segments is an outstanding achievement. But Toyota's relatively poor showing is significant. Aside from the Prius winning the compact car segment (and the Corolla appearing as a runner-up), the only Toyota-badged vehicles to take top spots, or even appear in the rankings as runners up, were all trucks, such the Sienna minivan and 4Runner and RAV4.

Look at the high volume car segments and GM dominates; entry midsize car winner is the Chevrolet Malibu/Maxx, the premium midsize car award goes to the Buick Century, with two GM vehicles in runner up positions, and the Buick LeSabre takes top spot in the full size category.

Notably absent in any of these car categories are any Toyota or Honda or Nissan products. Where, one might ask, is the mighty Toyota Camry or the Honda Accord? Equally worrying from the Japanese automakers' point of view should be the appearance of the Hyundai Sonata as a runner up in the entry mid-size car.

Full article...

[dindak]

GM needs all the good news it can get.

I wish people who buy Hondas and Toyotas would wake up and take a look at GM also.

[Cortazzo]

It's a very good point that the author makes. The honda and toyota brands aren't all that superior without their luxury nameplates. And the range of product defects are so close (how can you make a big deal about 1 tenth of a defect per car?), it just shows the competitiveness and strength of the US market.

[atomicshark]

Originally Posted by dindak

GM needs all the good news it can get.

I wish people who buy Hondas and Toyotas would wake up and take a look at GM also.

I did! I have always been open minded about cars anyway.

[mk1700]

Originally Posted by dindak

I wish people who buy Hondas and Toyotas would wake up and take a look at GM also.

It ll take time. As a customer its somehow a matter of loyalty to choose.
When sombody buys a car, no matter wich brand, they take on count many criteria, not just quality.
GM is just starting to change the perception of their products, but it gonna take time.
Honda and Toyota had lots of loyal customers and not many ll change their point of view, even if those japanese cars are no longer better than Gm's

[awalbert88]

Last year at a Scion dealership, I pointed to the JD Power rankings listed on their own bulletin board. A friend of mine was thinking about getting a Scion Tc or whatever it's called. The salesman was going on and on about Toyota quality. I walked right over to the listings and showed him how Toyota ranked #9 in long-term dependability, not #1 as the salesman kept spouting. I showed him that Buick, Lincoln, Cadillac, and others all did far better, and that Lexus was keeping Toyota in the top overall manufacturing spot. Needless to say, he didn't get the Scion. He ended up getting a Nissan Sentra, though. But the point is, he changed his mind about domestic quality, GM especially. The start of a real change in perception is to be presented with the cold hard facts, and then experience it first hand.

As was mentioned above, Honda and Toyota have lots of loyal customers. To expect them to abandon their brand because somebody else has equal or better quality is as rediculous as the idea of any of us abandoning GM or Ford during the 90's because Toyota had better quality. Eventually the core of loyal buyers will begin to shrink, but that takes considerable time. Just look at how it took several decades for GM to start losing loyal customers to the Japanese.

It is heartening to see people starting to take notice to GM's rather quiet focus on quality. It is sad that Ford tried to hard to make their quality push a point of significant PR, because then the slightest setback is seen as proof that they have failed. Whereas GM kept soldiering on quietly in regards to quality improvements, so that if they weren't as quick or as great as promised, they wouldn't get trashed by the press. Whether this was a concious decision by the higher-ups is doubtful, but it has worked.

[uujjj]

A Nissan Sentra because of concern about Toyota reliability? LOL

Reputations trail actual reliability by about 5 years. Mercedes' reliability scores started plunging in the late 90s, and only now, when they've actually begun fixing the problems, is it hurting their sales. GM needs to keep this up at least until the end of the decade before they can make Toyota-like profits.

[roushcrew]

How can the Pruis be segment winner when they're having all those stalling problems!!

[SSrevolution]

Originally Posted by roushcrew

How can the Pruis be segment winner when they're having all those stalling problems!!

YEAH WTF! In what way does that make sense? But then again all cars that small are automatically *****. LOL

[pkd87]

I think it will take time for Toyota/Honda customers to consider GM. GM products were bad for so many years. GM's going to have keep it's quality up for many years to come win "hard core" Toyota/Honda customers. Yeah GM's has the corvette, Solstice, and Sky that will make many people look at GM but those aren't sedans, minivans, and SUVs. They are sportscars.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by awalbert88

Last year at a Scion dealership, I pointed to the JD Power rankings listed on their own bulletin board. A friend of mine was thinking about getting a Scion Tc or whatever it's called. The salesman was going on and on about Toyota quality. I walked right over to the listings and showed him how Toyota ranked #9 in long-term dependability, not #1 as the salesman kept spouting. I showed him that Buick, Lincoln, Cadillac, and others all did far better, and that Lexus was keeping Toyota in the top overall manufacturing spot. Needless to say, he didn't get the Scion. He ended up getting a Nissan Sentra, though. But the point is, he changed his mind about domestic quality, GM especially. The start of a real change in perception is to be presented with the cold hard facts, and then experience it first hand.

As was mentioned above, Honda and Toyota have lots of loyal customers. To expect them to abandon their brand because somebody else has equal or better quality is as rediculous as the idea of any of us abandoning GM or Ford during the 90's because Toyota had better quality. Eventually the core of loyal buyers will begin to shrink, but that takes considerable time. Just look at how it took several decades for GM to start losing loyal customers to the Japanese.

It is heartening to see people starting to take notice to GM's rather quiet focus on quality. It is sad that Ford tried to hard to make their quality push a point of significant PR, because then the slightest setback is seen as proof that they have failed. Whereas GM kept soldiering on quietly in regards to quality improvements, so that if they weren't as quick or as great as promised, they wouldn't get trashed by the press. Whether this was a concious decision by the higher-ups is doubtful, but it has worked.

The toyota quality myth is now coming out in the open - 6th recall this year.

[hudson32]

Originally Posted by awalbert88

Last year at a Scion dealership, I pointed to the JD Power rankings listed on their own bulletin board. A friend of mine was thinking about getting a Scion Tc or whatever it's called. The salesman was going on and on about Toyota quality. I walked right over to the listings and showed him how Toyota ranked #9 in long-term dependability, not #1 as the salesman kept spouting. I showed him that Buick, Lincoln, Cadillac, and others all did far better, and that Lexus was keeping Toyota in the top overall manufacturing spot. Needless to say, he didn't get the Scion. He ended up getting a Nissan Sentra, though. But the point is, he changed his mind about domestic quality, GM especially. The start of a real change in perception is to be presented with the cold hard facts, and then experience it first hand.

As was mentioned above, Honda and Toyota have lots of loyal customers. To expect them to abandon their brand because somebody else has equal or better quality is as rediculous as the idea of any of us abandoning GM or Ford during the 90's because Toyota had better quality. Eventually the core of loyal buyers will begin to shrink, but that takes considerable time. Just look at how it took several decades for GM to start losing loyal customers to the Japanese.

It is heartening to see people starting to take notice to GM's rather quiet focus on quality. It is sad that Ford tried to hard to make their quality push a point of significant PR, because then the slightest setback is seen as proof that they have failed. Whereas GM kept soldiering on quietly in regards to quality improvements, so that if they weren't as quick or as great as promised, they wouldn't get trashed by the press. Whether this was a concious decision by the higher-ups is doubtful, but it has worked.

I wouldn't say Buick, Lincoln, and Cadillac are far better. The differences between the automakers these days in dependability are very slim. The rankings have somewhat narrow differentiations. Basically, as long as you maintain most cars well, they will serve well.

[hudson32]

Originally Posted by dindak

GM needs all the good news it can get.

I wish people who buy Hondas and Toyotas would wake up and take a look at GM also.

I think the problem a lot of Toyota and Honda buyers had with GM was not just past quality, but they judge a car on how it drives. I mean, GM could have higher IQ scores with its Century and LeSabre compared to Toyota's comparable models. But the Camry simply outperforms the Century in every respect when it comes to how it drives and feels. Now with the LaCrosse, things could be different. The Century could be higher rated in IQ, but when consumers see the car's interior, and how it drives, the choice was clear. And the LeSabre, which carries large incentives, had a disappointing interior when compared to the Avalon. The rear seat of a LeSabre wasn't what a full-size sedan or even a mid-size sedan should have. The Avalon's 3.0-liter V6 matched Buick's 3800 in power, making for parity in that area. And the 3.0-liter V6 was smoother and quieter than the 3800. While the LeSabre is a quiet car, when revved, isn't as smooth as the Avalon. It's true the LeSabre outsolded the Avalon every year, but the LeSabre's sales have slipped since 2000, while the Avalon was victimized the the Camry 2002 redesign.

I'm very please that GM has come a long ways in reliablity. But in order to win Toyota and Honda buyers, they need more than that. It takes an effort like what was done to Cadillac. Now I see Cadillacs with world-class performance and quality. Rich young enthusiasts desire Caddies now. Not only is Cadillac reliable, but it has great performance. The other divisions don't have it quiet yet. But when they change the ways of how their cars drive and feel, then GM will rebound.

[jorgesalazar521@msn.com]

It will take a many years of average vehicles for people to only buy on quality (like it did toy/hon or the mith of quality) or some really beautiful, want to have vehicles would change that quick. Some really nice loking buicks ranked higher than lexus would do. A impala, malibu, G6, cobalt selling 300 to 400thou per year and be #1 in quality or something like that. I hope the restyled Impala does well and is full of quality. Another thing is GM's old tech engines and trannies, need to jump to front of the class with 5/6speed trannies and same on engines superchage, tubocharge to keep the efficiency.

[knightfan26917]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Glimmers of hope for embattled Detroit

By John McCormick / Autos Insider

The headline in this newspaper - Toyota and GM lead in quality survey - said it all. At a time when General Motors Corp. is taking one body blow after another, it was interesting to see that at least the company's efforts to produce high quality vehicles are being recognized.

...and just as interesting to see the media writing about it, in a relatively positive light, nonetheless....




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