General Motors responds to class action lawsuits on intake manifold gaskets

[J..D]

Sometimes it takes time to find out there bad hell I had the 3.1,4.3 and 5.7 and never had one go bad with miles ranging from 160-296,000. Now that I think of it I never had a intake manifold gasket go bad on any of my GM cars.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by doh

Ask around, they are not as frequent as the 3.1L/3.4L, but they happen lots.

I know lots of people that own GM pickups and SUVs, not once have I ever heard of anyone of them having intake gasket problems with there 5.0L and 5.7L V8s.

Has anyone here heard of 5.0L and 5.7L intake gasket problems?

[GM2004]

there is leak problem on the 5.7 I owned, had the intake gasket replaced twice. I it is more of a casting problem. If the intake isn't fitted just right upon assembly it could leak. But there was no problem with the gasket material.

Lucky, I brought my 2003 Grand Prix in for service and had both upper and lower intake gaskets replaced before the warranty expired. The sad part is GM has bulletin out to put leak sealer in all others where the customer didn't complain. I looked up the history and it was done on my car without my knowledge, but the gaskets still leaked at 29,000 miles.

[W.A.F.U.]

I'm a firm believer in regular maintenance but it won't save all of them.

My 2002 Grand Am sprung an intake manifold leak with 58,000kms on it. I knew how common it was for this to happen so every nightshift, I took my car into the shop and checked the oil and coolant levels.

Monday night checked the oil. It's A1. Wednesday night, same week, opened the hood and coolant is dripping down the left front corner of the engine and the oil is contaminated. The car was towed to the dealer that night and repaired under warranty the next day.

But for those people not as anal about maintenance as I, that probably would have cost them the engine. Especially since the oil had been changed about 3 weeks before that. By the next LOF, the engine might have been toast and over the 60,000 warranty mark.

[ockgator]

The problem isn't ALL the gaskets fault, the bolts loosen up. When the intake gaskets are replaced on the 3.1/3.4 you're supposed to replace the intake bolts along with it, the bolts have threadlocker on them. The torque spec is ridiculously low, 10 ft. lbs. On the vortec truck engines the tq spec is 13 ft. lbs. When the bolts loosen not only does the coolant leak but it allows more movement between the manifold and heads which tears the plastic carrier for the O ring type gasket.

On the 3800 the problem is within the upper intake plenum, the EGR flows right behind the coolant passages that warm the throttle blades, it burns through, being plastic doesn't help matters any.
Think this is bad? Try a ferd 4.6, the coolant passage cracks, should say bursts. Of course with no coolant touching the tempo sender, it doesn't read overheat. Only cure is a complete intake manifold, those that have had it done surely remember the $800 to $900 hit in the wallet. At least on the 3800 you can change the plenum separate from the lower intake. To ferd's credit the new manifold has an aluminum coolant passage. Oh yeah, on the 4.6 ferd the heater hose connection cracks too, solution... you guessed it, new manifold. For those chasing a miss on cyl #4 check this area

And how do I know this? That's my job as a tech to fix this stuff. Can't count how many of each engine I've fixed.

Just my $.02 (and then some)

[blackeagle]

Originally Posted by Elk

I know lots of people that own GM pickups and SUVs, not once have I ever heard of anyone of them having intake gasket problems with there 5.0L and 5.7L V8s.

Has anyone here heard of 5.0L and 5.7L intake gasket problems?

I had one replaced on my 98 GMC Savana at around 100,000 miles. The place where I got it fixed said that they had done lots of them.

[01cavalier]

While I udnerstand that this is a more common problem than it should be, the gaskets really can go out for various reasons. Coverage should be given, and customer assistance generally is more sensitive to this problem than most other problems. The problem can be caught by someone competent in doing maintenance and regular checks, and serious damage can almost always be prevented. So, those who lose engines from it are generally not taking care of them.

[tom3]

It's a shame this didn't cover the 4.3s in the S series too. Ours started leaking at 12K miles while in warranty. Dealer "fixed" it with the sawdust tablets. I'd sure like to sue somebody over that deal. Maybe contract with Osama to send a guy in there too. This is one time I agree with the class action suit, even though the lawyers will get most of the money.

[IAMCANADIAN]

Originally Posted by Mags

The lawsuit doesn't infer that GM should be repairing cars out of the warranty period for normal wear and tear.

The lawsuit says that it was DEFECTIVE engineering that caused these problems. More or less that GM KNEW about the problems, and did nothing to alleviate the problems unless someone came bitching to them.

MF

Basically, the supplier of the gaskets should've known that these plastic gaskets don't mix. However, GM should've done something about it and hopefully they will. I sent a letter to GM about it and wondering if my car's still under warranty and if they'll pay for it. I can't afford to pay for something that wasn't my fault in the first place. While GM isn't fully to blame, they need to do what's right and recall the gasket.

[kenw55]

this is a little dated (Fel-Pro has released V-6 products now)

Federal-Mogul has solved a long-standing sealing problem affecting a number of different engines with its new Fel-Pro PermaDryPlus replacement intake manifold gasket. The new gasket features a high-strength aluminized steel carrier that is edge-molded and encapsulated with a proprietary fluoroelastomer material. In addition, it features three separate sealing beads around coolant ports to ensure a long-lasting seal under any situation. The gasket solves chronic coolant leakage problems on GM 5.0L and 5.7L engines (1996-2002). Additional coverage to be released in the next few months will cover Ford 3.8L, 4.0L, and 4.2L engines, and GM 3.1L, 3.4L, and 4.3L engines. “You’re looking at a development process of two years, involving 2500 dyno hours,” said Fel-Pro Chief Engineer Jerry Rosenquist in introducing the gasket last month. “We burned up five small block Chevy engines in the process, but after 11 different gasket designs, we came up with a winner. We really nailed it.” The company was inspired to develop a problem-solver gasket after a number of focus groups involving service technicians from across the United States repeatedly identified the intake-manifold sealing problem as the most common gasket-related issue they face. The PermaDryPlus intake manifold gasket is comprised of a high-strength aluminized steel carrier that is edge-molded and encapsulated with a proprietary fluoroelastomer material and features double- and triple-redundant sealing beads. Rosenquist said it is so resilient the development team was able to dyno test it for over 600 hours without any noticeable deterioration. By comparison, the plastic gaskets that come standard with the engines barely lasted 50 hours in the same test. Rosenquist said the research and development process was made easier with extensive resources available to the Fel-Pro team through Federal-Mogul. “We had the luxury of contacting other people in our organization that have some ideas. We have technical facilities around the world and we have access to technical equipment and people and ideas that we had never had before.” The new gasket is now available as part of a complete Fel-Pro Manifold Installation Set (Fel-Pro P/N MS 98000T) for G.M. 5.0L and 5.7L V8 truck engines manufactured from 1996 through 2002. The time-saving set contains all of the premium technologies needed to complete an intake manifold gasket repair, including PermaDryPlus lower manifold gaskets, upper manifold gaskets and an advanced PermaDry valve cover gasket.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by IAMCANADIAN

Basically, the supplier of the gaskets should've known that these plastic gaskets don't mix. However, GM should've done something about it and hopefully they will. I sent a letter to GM about it and wondering if my car's still under warranty and if they'll pay for it. I can't afford to pay for something that wasn't my fault in the first place. While GM isn't fully to blame, they need to do what's right and recall the gasket.

No this is 100% GM’s fault. GM tested parts before they put them in cars they are going to sell. They don’t just order parts and hope for the best. After testing some bean counter at GM decided that enough of the gaskets lasted past the warranty period that it would be cheaper for GM to keep selling cars with bad gaskets then replace them with good gaskets.

[IAMCANADIAN]

Originally Posted by Elk

No this is 100% GM’s fault. GM tested parts before they put them in cars they are going to sell. They don’t just order parts and hope for the best. After testing some bean counter at GM decided that enough of the gaskets lasted past the warranty period that it would be cheaper for GM to keep selling cars with bad gaskets then replace them with good gaskets.

Regardless, the people who supplied the gasket should've known better too, don't tell me it isn't their fault. I'm not saying that it isn't GM's fault, but the people who designed and made the gasket should know plastic doesn't mix. GM admits to it, but they should do something about it instead of letting their dealers deal with the costs. On my Grand Prix, I have the Optimum Warranty so I'm going to get them to replace it, even though they don't replace it if it ain't broke because I can't afford to go through all that trouble. Either that or have it in writing that they will fix it no-charge.

[kool_zx3]

A supplier was told to make a gasket to last this long, for so much money for so many cars... They made one worth the money gm gave them, GM said right on and they used it....

GM is mostly at fault for using the gasket if they knew it was garbage..... Gm was engineers and teams that that test everything that goes on a vehicle and they approved it... GM also dug themselves a huge hole after using it for years without giving a rats ass.

[tom3]

When you get right down to it, anything GM outsources is built to their specifications. Tires, wiring, whatever, those failing gaskets for sure. But this problem was rare until GM went to the Vortec intake design with the bolts pointing straight down, drawing the intake down on the block instead of into the heads. With the low bolt torques the intake floats on the thick gasket, and sometimes it sinks from what we're seeing. Sure hate to say it, but this deal has soured me on GM products - and I've owned nothing but GM for 35 years. Sure hope they have it fixed for today's buyers though.

[doh]

Originally Posted by IAMCANADIAN

Regardless, the people who supplied the gasket should've known better too, don't tell me it isn't their fault. I'm not saying that it isn't GM's fault, but the people who designed and made the gasket should know plastic doesn't mix. GM admits to it, but they should do something about it instead of letting their dealers deal with the costs. On my Grand Prix, I have the Optimum Warranty so I'm going to get them to replace it, even though they don't replace it if it ain't broke because I can't afford to go through all that trouble. Either that or have it in writing that they will fix it no-charge.

GM gave the thumbs up to the gasket, GM gave the $$$ that they would pay for the gasket, GM replaced thousands of gaskets with the same gasket, even though they knew they were faulty.

Suppliers are at fault for many things, many recalls, not unlike Ford's cruise control switches. But this is GM's problem for keeping on using them.