Gas Prices Send Surge of Riders to Mass Transit

[Koasterking]

Then there's people like me. Where I live there is no mass transit to get people around locally. The only thing in NJ transit, but that only brings people in and out of the city, and that's it.

[OrlandoGuy80]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Baby steps. Let's concentrate on getting San Francisco and Los Angeles connected with High Speed Rail first.

Is this on the table right now? If so, that is great for all you West Coasters.

Just to give you an idea of how backwards the Florida government works: about five or six years ago, the Florida legislature was given a proposal that was successfully voted on by the people to build a high-speed rail system between Orlando and Tampa (where I4 runs, the busiest stretch of highway in the state). Big government killed it, and their reason was because basically the people didn't know what they were voting on and all that it entailed.

More recently, Orlando, along with many of the outlying metro communities from Poinciana (south near Disney/Lake Buena Vista) all the way up to DeBary (halfway to Daytona Beach) struck a deal to convert freight rail tracks to commuter rail. It passed approval with voters and made it, again, all the way to Tallahassee. Now the state government is dilly-dallying and there is the possibility it will be struck down too. Sad.

Oh ... my option for mass transit is LYNX. My current 25 minute/8-mile commute would turn into and hour and 30 minutes if I were to take the LYNX. No thanks.

[A.J.]

Has GM ever gotten into the Bus industry before? If they haven't, they should - it could sort of make up for the decling sales of the GMT900s.

[Orbit Orange]

For many folks the inner city, or urban core, is an unaccetable place to live.

Amen brother. City is the last place I'd ever choose to live. I wake up in the morning surrounded by green. Quiet and peaceful, fresh air. I can see wildlife from my front window, or in my yard. Hiking, fishing, hunting or fresh produce is seconds away if I desire. But I still have all the amenities to raise a family and that is exactly what I'm doing and loving it. I'll pass on the urban rat race.

[Ming]

The Houston Metro Park and Ride bus system is very convenient IF you work downtown. But companies around Houston sprawl outside of the downtown area just as much as the suburbs. My company is a good 15-20 minute drive outside of "Houston".

There is no public transportation system for most Houstonians who work in such companies outside of the core city area. And at least until recently, most would have gladly avoided buses and traffic snarls around I-45, I-10 and the 610 loop, adding an hour on to their daily commutes for the dubious honor of working down "in the city".

Outside of downtown Houston it's hard to find places with reliable stretches of sidewalks or bicycle lanes, much less local buses.

[CrunkedRL]

Originally Posted by A.J.

Has GM ever gotten into the Bus industry before? If they haven't, they should - it could sort of make up for the decling sales of the GMT900s.

Yes for years GM had been producing transit style busses up under the GM and GMC nameplates but have since abandoned the bus manfacuring business. However, as of recent GM has been producing hybrid electric drive systems for commercial bus manfacturers most notably the NewFlyers (seen below) purchased by King County (Seattle) a few years ago. I think GM is in a good position right now using their resources to offer alternative forms of power to the public sector. I think as the price of fuel continues to go up we'll be seeing alot more of these hybrid electric vehicles in many different transit administration's fleets.

[gardnet1]

I wonder what the effect on productivity and quality of life will be? On one hand people will spend more time commuting which includes waiting and walking...less quality time at home. On the other while your in a bus/train, all the stress is off of you as opposed to being mired in a traffic jam. It might be a good time do some creative thinking and strategizing. Also the exercise is always good, even for elders.

Plus with more mass transit commuters, those that do drive will have less traffic and thus save gas too.

When the construction workers start taking mass transit, along with their tools and materials...that's when you know the sheet has officially hit the fan.lol

[member12]

The crime, total lack of respect for property, and since of entitlement of some American inner cities makes the automobile dependent suburbs look pretty good to me. The police presence is either corrupt or lacking, the schools are terrible, and the cost of living is higher in many places in the inner city.

If the crime was so bad and I didn't have to worry about getting broken into when I am not at home, then I'd live right next to where I work. It's okay now because I don't have a family, but when that happens I want them in a safe neighborhood with good schools and affordable housing, and I want it far away from the neighborhood I am currently in.

Don't hate because people choose to seperate themselves from neighborhoods that should be bulldozed. Sprawl is happening because our police force can't be trusted and our inner cities are crap. I wouldn't want my children growing up there. We need to either clean up our inner cities (those that have been cleaned up usually end up being extremely expensive places to live), or start bringing services to the outlying parts of our cities.

I think that our government doesn't do a thing to bring services out to the growing cities as fast as possible. I took MARTA when I was in Atlanta because I happend to work and live near stations. Most people don't.
Washington DC has the best metro I've ever seen. I probably wouldn't even own a car if I worked there. Their subway is both an way to get around the city and is also set up to be a commuter rail.

Of course, you can't build that in every city because of cost and geography....and buses, in my opinion, are usless. They are slow, not particularly cheap, dirty, and are still subject to traffic jambs.

I'll give an example: Houston.
There is no planning in this town and everyone depends on their cars. I hated Houston because it was too hard to get around there. Traffic was bad, it seemed like you had to drive forever just go get to the grocery store.....and everything was constantly under construction.
Then I realized....it's privatized urban renewal. It's a great concept and makes affordable living in the city possible. The only problem is that there is no public transit to speak of. If there were a Washington DC style metro rail in Houston, then that city would be a really good place to live. Instead of spending money on public transit, they are spending it on widening the roads. Say what you want, but there is no way a city can grow as fast as Houston and not have sprawl problems. The crummy neighborhoods closer to downtown get bought out by developers who put high end condos on the property. People on fixed incomes can't afford to live in the inner city because of higher property taxes, so they sell out and move to the cheaper suburbs.
It's a great concept but it's biggest flaw is that it's booming growth has caused massive traffic problems and there simply isn't a decent public transit system to overcome that. The more sprawl, the more expensive a transit system becomes and the less likely it happens.

Atlanta tried to push MARTA, and to an extent it is useful. The problem with it is that it doesn't reach 90% of the people in the city and the suburbs. They are expanding it, but they still have problems with safety and crime. Atlanta is probably the only modern city (re: sprawling city outside of New England) with a public transit. MARTA can't be used as a commuter rail for most people because they either live or work in places where there is no station, and that is a tough thing to fix because the city sprawls out endlessly.

Dallas is trying to incorporate a public transit system based on rail, but I also doubt it's success given that most of the city depends on the car and unless the metro can bring the stations close to their home or office, then it will be under-utilized like MARTA in Atlanta.

New York and DC have great transit systems, but that's because the population density is much higher and a subway station is a close walk for most people (within a few blocks). Newer cities don't develop that way, and they are going to have to depend on a commuter shuttle type service, carpool lanes, or commuter rail instead of a subway station.

[GM-Joe]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Yup! It's a good thing too!!!
Transit ridership is up everywhere across the board here. And that's a good thing.

Correctomundo. If it is feasible to take mass transit, then those who can should. Why would anyone want to drive their SUV in rush hour traffic, getting upset, risking accident, and depreciating their vehicles value, as well as the notorious door dings that are everywhere at employee parking lots, all just to be fashionable? But to all the people where mass transit is not feasible, try taking your lunch instead of spending $7 a day on your favorite fast food. You'll save $5 a day, put less ware and tear on your vehicle in stop and go traffic, lose a few pounds, and get better overall gas mileage in the process. That is what I have done and I actually spend less on gas now than I did 15 months ago.

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

Originally Posted by CrunkedRL

Yes for years GM had been producing transit style busses up under the GM and GMC nameplates but have since abandoned the bus manfacuring business. However, as of recent GM has been producing hybrid electric drive systems for commercial bus manfacturers most notably the NewFlyers (seen below) purchased by King County (Seattle) a few years ago. I think GM is in a good position right now using their resources to offer alternative forms of power to the public sector. I think as the price of fuel continues to go up we'll be seeing alot more of these hybrid electric vehicles in many different transit administration's fleets.

GM literally OWNED the bus industry for many years but they were always "cautious" of getting busted by the fed for anti-trust suits. So much they just gave away their design to another company "Flxible" who competed with GM also

Old GM New Looks are still the coolest buses:



But the sold the whole Truck and Coach operation circa 1985... Think the bus operation went to Greyhound which was the biggest customer, then seemed to be spun off into "Motor Coach Industries" and the Canadian plant near Montreal became "NovaBus".

[cincygoblue]

Originally Posted by aa2

I saw two studies, one for Chicago and one for Dallas looking at their bus network efficiency. They found per passenger mile on the buses they get 31 mpg.

So more then double what your average SUV (14 mpg) gets in the city.. but significantly less then a Prius (45 mpg) gets in the city.

Based on how that study reported the results, I bet as ridership goes up, so does economy. If they could increase ridership by 50%, they'd get the same as a Prius (x that many passngers)! Now that shows the efficiency of mass transit.

[PAULSTS1]

I relocated from West LA to my current abode in the South Bay/Orange County limits it was because my Company made a big move, this was almost 11 years ago. The Company again relocated 7 years ago to the current downtown Los Angeles business district, and I chose to continue to live where I currently reside. A sidebar: The downtown LA area is undergoing massive re-construction, with lofts selling in the 600K to 1.5M range. However until recently there was no infrastructure to support quality of life; Gas Stations, Supermarkets, Green areas. Downtown LA is very old, and hasn’t received the care and attention that a lot of other metropolitan areas have; also there exists a danger element of the surrounding areas: Skid row, East Los Angeles, all within easy access makes downtown living for the very adventurous of heart and quick of flight. Just a few months ago Ralph's Markets opened a superstore, and the whole area came out for the Grand Opening! I attended the gala, and was surprised to see how many people turned out.

For many years, I rotated between driving and taking the metro train, the drive/train about the same amount of time 1 hour, in each direction. Where the savings on the train is accented is in terms of: Lack of Stress avoiding the SigAlerts, and constant traffic snarls, wear and tear on my vehicles (I only drive about 7500 miles per year—these are some of the reasons I haven’t fully made a decision on my car replacement as yet), avoiding parking fees averaging from $5.00 daily (you have to really hunt to find these, I have found 3 locations) most charge between $9.50 and $14.00 daily. Some of the negatives have already been mentioned earlier by other members: Parking at the Park & Ride has become a hit or miss thing, sometimes it might be better wisdom to ride the bus to the train line and forget moving the cars at all! The diversity of people on the train/in my STS, I deal with a quiet refined atmosphere, on the train I can hear everything some dizzy skank did and who she did it with; in shy less detail (on the cell phone). Also the hygiene of some (or lack of) can leave you craving for charcoal filtered climate controlled environmental.

More recent notification: The Company has announced that a planned division will separate into 3 units all at different venues, and there will be movement again, however we’ll have to wait until the conference call scheduled for May 14, 2008.

[big swede]

mgescuro,
Is the BART entirely financed by ridership? The local metrolink is claiming all time records for use yet they are also claiming they will lose 17 million dollars this year and want tax money. The local politicians are thinking about creating a tax to pay for the overages which sounds wrong to me. Sounds to me like they need to raise the ticket prices to pay for the shortages.

[FStephenMasek]

Let's hope the fuel prices finally convince people to live closer to where they work, or work closer to where they live.

[uujjj]

Originally Posted by big swede

mgescuro,
Is the BART entirely financed by ridership? The local metrolink is claiming all time records for use yet they are also claiming they will lose 17 million dollars this year and want tax money. The local politicians are thinking about creating a tax to pay for the overages which sounds wrong to me. Sounds to me like they need to raise the ticket prices to pay for the shortages.

BART operations are ~60% funded by riders. the rest comes from ads, taxes. or transit systems in the US only the san diego trolley is fully funded by riders.