Ford, GM explore joint engines

[stevecmh]

they need to do whatever they need to, to save money..

if they had to pick any automaker to do this with Ford is the best

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by Beau

"People like you and that type of thinking will be responsible for the demise of the US auto industry.

As a mod you should at least try to be somewhat objective, not a blind fan boy."

Lol dude, go pound sand.

The problem here is EXTRA BAGGAGE. GM will not gain anything from Ford, thats the issue.

Joint ventures can work out well, but we want money coming into the US economy... All GM and FORD are going to do is be fighting over a slightly larger crumb... Useless.

GM apparently came to Ford, not the other way around.

Stop assuming the basic's of what will and won't benefit the other, if they are in talks you're better off assuming that there is SOME benefit in the arrangement.

How about waiting for an official announcement?

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by likearock00

Stupid!! Keep Volt technology to yourself GM!!

The only partnership should be to make truck/SUV engines. It would relieve both automakers from the extreme expense in a dwindling market. As for the cars- stay away Ford!

I doubt that GM is going to share their Chevy Volt technology with Ford or any other automaker. After all GM wants to be the first automaker with a plug-in hybrid on sale in the market and GM wants to be in the lead exclusively with this technology which will give them a leg up on Toyota and other automakers. And I don't see GM sharing their Volt technology with any other automaker without giving it a HEFTY cost to use their technology. However, I can see GM cooperating on other powertrains such for other small cars, mid size cars, trucks, and SUVS. That's about it. I'm pretty sure that GM will probably end up working with Ford on a few powertrains here and there but not everyone of them.

[tgunnd39]

Hmmm...

Seems to me Ford and GM have been forced together by several, now very familiar events, to do what the Japanese have been doing with Keiretsu, (I believe that is the correct spelling), for decades.

Worked for them, now perhaps it will work for Detroit, and indirectly, the USofA.

[ColinOpseth]

Originally Posted by ausrutherford

Ford has the Eb engines which are tuned for effiency not power like GM, a better Hybrid battery with a new one coming out in Jamuary, more effient engines with the boss's(ford instance Fords 5.0V8 makes 400 hp in the Mustang, GM has to use the 6.2 in the Camaro to get 400 hp. Smaller displacement=better fuel economy.

GM motors are way detuned, bro. Simple PCM recalibration adds 20-30hp, easy. You also didn't mention that the mod motor is quite a bit heavier than a comparable LSx engine. And it is larger in dimension.

[Extreme4x4]

Personal biases and hatreds need to be put aside in a time of need. With all the cuts that both companies have made, there are not alot of engineers at either anymore. If they pool their resources, they should be able to come out with better stuff, faster.

Remember that Ford has been working on alternative suppliers for batteries for hybrids. They are also working on a different supplier for their hybrid trans (I believe). Thus, this is a very valuable resource for GM.............. as they are WAY behind in these items.

Both companies have things they can bring to the table. To think otherwise, is to truly be blind. Hatred like that will see one or both companies in Chapter 11 (GM for sure, less so for Ford, due to the family). In other words............... put it away.

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by ausrutherford

Smaller displacement=better fuel economy.

Not necessarily, but I expect to be proven wrong...

[Klay]

Originally Posted by Olds88

Just in case anyone wants to refute this claim by saying the Z06 has a weight advantage I present to you...

2009 Dodge Challenger R/T 5.7L 370hp 4000+lbs 15/23

Except what you typed proves nothing other than dodge actually gets better than both if you consider weight. Unless your argument is that weight doesn't effect fuel economy. Not too mention the corvette has a 6 speed which is really why it gets the kind of mileage it does.

http://autos.yahoo.com/ford_mustang_...e-specs/?p=ext

http://autos.aol.com/cars-Chevrolet-...vailable-trims

I honestly am trying to figure out how people can actually believe ford has nothing better than GM, considering Ford is in a better financial situation at the current moment. That must mean they are doing something right.

I mean what does GM have the competes with the escape in fuel economy? The camaro won't have a model (yet) that beats the mustang (Gt500) in power so I guess Ford is ahead in that category. What about sync, even though it isn't an engine tech it's something Ford has and GM doesn't.

Originally Posted by ColinOpseth

GM motors are way detuned, bro. Simple PCM recalibration adds 20-30hp, easy. You also didn't mention that the mod motor is quite a bit heavier than a comparable LSx engine. And it is larger in dimension.

You do realize that the gt500 gaines even more with a simple tune? It isn't just as simple as GM engines are detuned and Ford's aren't. I would assume all performance engines from both are detuned to help improve fuel economy and longevity.
It is pretty obvious they both have something to gain even if it is only money for GM (which I don't believe is everything they can gain but whatever). I don't see how GM getting money for the research and development of the volt or whatever engine is somehow meaningless. It isn't like Ford hasn't researched this same area of engine development either.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by member12

THat's awesome.

That means that Ford and GM can benefit from a tax cut for Volt buyers.



GM has the technology, and Ford has the cash to pay for it....so, Ford and GM each get great hybrid powertrains at a much lower cost than if they were to go it alone.

Great way to also make sure Two mode and BAS 2'F' dominates HSD in the supplier base.

Hope there is a spot for Chrysler.

Just think if all three did a joint small car AT together - maybe even an engine or complete powertrain or vehicle platform 'family'

[dratnol]

Originally Posted by Beau

"People like you and that type of thinking will be responsible for the demise of the US auto industry.

As a mod you should at least try to be somewhat objective, not a blind fan boy."

Lol dude, go pound sand.

The problem here is EXTRA BAGGAGE. GM will not gain anything from Ford, thats the issue.

Joint ventures can work out well, but we want money coming into the US economy... All GM and FORD are going to do is be fighting over a slightly larger crumb... Useless.

Reading is fundamental, really.

In case you didn't read anything, the idea of a joint venture is to share development costs and engineering on FUTURE products. Now I know that is a difficult idea for you to process with your idea that GM and Ford are going to swap what they have now. Not to mention your past time of packing earth. Now how you can say that reducing costs for two of the largest manufacturers in the US will not help the economy is well, useless.

[dratnol]

Originally Posted by Rick_VT

Well im not from America so ive never driven any car with those motors in them but theres no reason GM and Ford shouldnt combine in other areas to save money, surely between those to and maybe even Chrysler they could get together and form some kind of company to purchase stuff for their cars, between the 3 of them they should be able to find lots of things that can be bought as 1 to save money.

Maybe someone who works in the steel industry could answer this for me but if GM Ford and Chrysler all purchased their steel requirements in 1 big bulk deal how much could they potentially save the buying it seperately?

If Ford, GM, and Chrysler could work out the distribution system, I would think that there surely would be savings by ordering in bulk. Basic building blocks of major components could be co-developed with each manufacturer adding their own flavor by finishing the core product. Things as simple as steel wheels or starters could be developed that would switch between the companies. Economy of scale is the name of the game.

[escapen]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Great way to also make sure Two mode and BAS 2'F' dominates HSD in the supplier base.

Hope there is a spot for Chrysler.

Just think if all three did a joint small car AT together - maybe even an engine or complete powertrain or vehicle platform 'family'

You mean like an alliance or sharing with Chrysler if GM and Ford hook up for another alliance? I dont think any of the other US automakers wants to deal with Chrysler's poor management and skewed product lines

What does Chrysler have to bring to the table? (im asking this in general, so anyone please answer).

Domestic plants?
Decent Platforms?
hmmm

[lio45]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Someone tell me why GM should use ANYTHING that Ford has?
Mod motors vs Gen IV's? Winner: GM
Zetec vs Ecotec?? Winner: GM
Duratech vs HF V6? Winner: GM
Supercharged motors? Winner: GM
Plug in Hybrid: Winner: GM
Active Fuel Mangagement Winner: GM

What does Ford have that GM doesnt? If someone says Ecoboost, Im gunna pass out with laughter.

In fact, one could argue that Ford has the most to gain by refusing to collaborate with GM on joint mutual-savings projects, not the other way around.

When GM goes belly up, Ford could probably end up picking up most of GM's domestic-buying clientele, and by agreeing to this deal, Ford will be helping GM more than itself (while both automakers will welcome the savings with open arms, they're more vital to GM).

[big swede]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

What does Ford have that GM doesnt? If someone says Ecoboost, Im gunna pass out with laughter.

They are supposed to be way farther ahead with their version of the DSG type transmissions. I'll believe that when I see it though.

[a_v_s]

Originally Posted by blaksabb

Please read my post again. I was discussing the reason that an OHV engine will typically have a larger displacement than an OHC engine yet similar power output. Titan's 5.6L and Ford's 5.4L Triton are physically larger engines (external dimensions) then GM's 5.3L Vortec. Had they been 4.6L OHC (to supposedly save fuel as the original poster implied) they would have had similar external weight/size characteristics compared to the Vortec 5.3L w/ lower power/torque outputs.

That must be why the Toyota 3.5 V6 makes 277 torque and 306hp or the non-direct injected nissan 3.7 makes 270 torque an 330hp, while the 3900 HV makes 245 torque and 240hp. The 3900 is also much heavier than the other engines, thanks to its Iron block.

But anyways all aluminum DOHC engines are not necessarily heavier than all aluminum pushrod engines either... The AMG 6.2 is actually 20 pounds lighter than the LS7.

Pushrods and OHCs each have their plusses and minuses in different applications, but neither can be said to be better then the other with generalized blanket statements.


In the end, I think this opportunity is excellent. I'd rather GM make money with ford, than lose money to Toyohondassan.