Ford, GM explore joint engines

[Beau]

"People like you and that type of thinking will be responsible for the demise of the US auto industry.

As a mod you should at least try to be somewhat objective, not a blind fan boy."

Lol dude, go pound sand.

The problem here is EXTRA BAGGAGE. GM will not gain anything from Ford, thats the issue.

Joint ventures can work out well, but we want money coming into the US economy... All GM and FORD are going to do is be fighting over a slightly larger crumb... Useless.

[AMcA]

Originally Posted by likearock00

Stupid!! Keep Volt technology to yourself GM!!

The only partnership should be to make truck/SUV engines. It would relieve both automakers from the extreme expense in a dwindling market. As for the cars- stay away Ford!

Not necessarily. Part of the challenge for the volt and its kind is building a supply base. Having Ford come to the party as well might actually help push forward a solid supply base. Maybe.

[Olds88]

Originally Posted by Will123w

Really?

2008 Corvette Zo6- 7.0l 505hp 15/24

2008 Mustang GT 4.6l 300hp 15/23

source- http://www.fueleconomy.gov

Just in case anyone wants to refute this claim by saying the Z06 has a weight advantage I present to you...

2009 Dodge Challenger R/T 5.7L 370hp 4000+lbs 15/23

[zete]

Doesn't Ford still have the OHC v8s they used in Jaguar and Aston Martin? If so, wouldn't those engines suit Cadillac quite nicely?

I'm sure there's some sharing that can happen between the two firms. Hybrid technology sharing wouldn't be a bad idea. Anything that spreads the costs around.

It's not a time to be proud. GM and Ford need to find ways of saving money. Hell, Chrysler needs to save money big time, too. But they're starting to share platforms with VW and Nissan. If the Big 3 are to survive, they truly need to find ways of sharing.

Besides, didn't GM and Ford share development of the auto 6?

[asrapid]

Originally Posted by zete

Doesn't Ford still have the OHC v8s they used in Jaguar and Aston Martin? If so, wouldn't those engines suit Cadillac quite nicely?

?

Jaguar aj-v8 has 300 hp in N.A form and 420 hp with supercharger. So it is worse than Northstar which has 460+ HP with supercharger.
On the other hand AJ-v8 version for aston martin in V8 Vantage has 4.7 l and 420 hp in N.A form. But jaguar and aston martin don't belongs to Ford any more.
Rumors are jaguar is developing some 5.0 l V8 but i don't know if ford has anything to do with it.

[escapen]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Someone tell me why GM should use ANYTHING that Ford has?
Mod motors vs Gen IV's? Winner: GM
Zetec vs Ecotec?? Winner: GM
Duratech vs HF V6? Winner: GM
Supercharged motors? Winner: GM
Plug in Hybrid: Winner: GM
Active Fuel Mangagement Winner: GM

What does Ford have that GM doesnt? If someone says Ecoboost, Im gunna pass out with laughter.

Ya have fun with active fuel management, Ford is damn smart for not using that worthless tech. It totally does not have enough positive benefits to improve fuel economy enough. And BTW, as GM stands currently with no Volt, Ford has the better Hybrids (meaning they dont waste time with "mild" hybrids with that stupid belt GM insists on using).

The Volt will be an awesome performer with the fuel savings, but the Ford 2.5L mated with a FULL hybrid will kick GMs hybrids butt in fuel economy

Originally Posted by KingElvis

I was gonna say - what's in it for GM? Ford seems to lag about three years behind in terms of MPG and HP/liter.

Maybe, but Fords DI tech will be more widely used and better performance will be distributed across the board unlike what GM does with is DI HF V6. Does that engine make more then 306 HP in DI form?

The V8 line seems especially weak. They've got to use the three valve settup to get competitive HP with 2 valve Chevy engines.

That WOULD be funny to have a "Mustang vs. Camaro" or "F-150 vs. Silverado" contest with both 'competitors' having the same engine.

I already know GM wont share V8 tech, i think both companies will focus on 4 cylinders for future small platforms. Its just too bad the Cruze wont be here when Ford gets 2 better small cars. The Euro Fiesta and Focus. sorry GM you may have better small engines but style wise the Euro Fords will kick a$$

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by Beau

GM will not gain anything from Ford....

...other than cash.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by dratnol

People like you and that type of thinking will be responsible for the demise of the US auto industry.

As a mod you should at least try to be somewhat objective, not a blind fan boy.

If this was an equal trade, then maybe Id be down. But what does Ford have that GM does not?
The GM/Ford 6spd auto was a good move which helped them both out, but engine info? Sorry...dont think either of them need it. GM still has major ties into Daewoo and Opel which will help them with small engines, but I would not work with Ford on anything.

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by blaksabb

Why are people so one-track? "Smaller displacement = better fuel economy" is not true. Power to displacement ratio means nothing in unrelated engine formulas. Power to engine weight counts more. How about power to external engine dimension? An OHC Ford modular V8 is externally larger and heavier than an LS-series Gen III/IV. High HP is made relative to cylinder displacement @ higher RPM through greater top-end volumetric efficiency.

The 3-4 valves/cylinder design allows for better airflow w/ less turbulence @ high RPM. Greater airflow requires more fuel during the combustion cycle which likely = less fuel efficiency. All this high RPM HP typically comes at the sacrifice of low RPM Torque (VVT can mitigate this to some extent). Forget peak HP/Torque numbers for a second. They are the playground of the marketing division. Look at the Torque curves of both engines and then tell me which is more powerful.

Also, what mythical Ford has a 400HP 5.0L V8? Don't mention a future product or a crate motor. Also, name a 400HP V8 that gets better fuel economy than the LS3.

Also, look into a spell checker.

Wow, GM is typically the one who makes less torque down low when compared to engines of the same size from other manufacturers:
Silverado 5.3 pushrod
315 hp @ 5200 RPM
338 tq @ 4400 RPM

Titan 5.6 DOHC 4 valves per cyl
317 hp @ 4900 RPM
385 tq @ 3600 RPM

F-150 5.4 DOHC 3 valves per cyl
300 hp @ 5000 RPM
365 tq @ 3750 RPM

[doh]

Originally Posted by 1931Chevy

It looks like some people at Ford and GM has some common senses because this is something they need to do as of yesterday
and likearock in the current position GM is related on the cash front I prefer them to go and join with Ford on this rather than Nissan or Toyleta

It has worked out for thier 6 speed FWD Automatic, even though Ford actually perfected it first.

[escapen]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

If this was an equal trade, then maybe Id be down. But what does Ford have that GM does not?
The GM/Ford 6spd auto was a good move which helped them both out, but engine info? Sorry...dont think either of them need it. GM still has major ties into Daewoo and Opel which will help them with small engines, but I would not work with Ford on anything.

Well you just said it, GM having ties with daewoo will prob stop Ford from wanting their crappy small engines anyway. the small Fords in NA may not be up to snuff as of now, but how come Ford has consistantly beat Opel/ Vauxhall in euro sales for decades? The focus has better powertrains AND that awesome suspension that keeps the Astra and Vectra on dealer lots while Focus and Mondeo fly off dealer lots.

When Ford has a fully interchangeable lineup in NA and europe, GM might still have a better 4 cylinder, but people will be buying small Fords and not rebadged Saturn's

[doh]

Ford has a big jump on thier Ecotec, direct injection line of engines. I have heard rumours of 30 MPG F150's test mules, with 265 hp V6 engines for awhile now.

They both could benifit from this, don't down grade the possibilities.

[The Law]

I could see GM/Ford sharing tech for Hybrids ,electric and truck suv platforms.Chrysler already is working with Nissan and VW.
Could a formation be at hand? Ford sold most of their higher end brands and Gm's selling Hummer.

[Member17739]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Someone tell me why GM should use ANYTHING that Ford has?
Mod motors vs Gen IV's? Winner: GM
Zetec vs Ecotec?? Winner: GM
Duratech vs HF V6? Winner: GM
Supercharged motors? Winner: GM
Plug in Hybrid: Winner: GM
Active Fuel Mangagement Winner: GM

What does Ford have that GM doesnt? If someone says Ecoboost, Im gunna pass out with laughter.

It's about saving development money on the stuff that is not even made today. Look at the A6 developed jointly, I assume both partners in the deal contributed 50% of the development costs. Ford and GM walked away with a nice transmission for half the money. Whats wrong with repeating that on as many projects as possible? I wouldn't mind if they share a platform or two.

[blaksabb]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

Wow, GM is typically the one who makes less torque down low when compared to engines of the same size from other manufacturers:
Silverado 5.3 pushrod
315 hp @ 5200 RPM
338 tq @ 4400 RPM

Titan 5.6 DOHC 4 valves per cyl
317 hp @ 4900 RPM
385 tq @ 3600 RPM

F-150 5.4 DOHC 3 valves per cyl
300 hp @ 5000 RPM
365 tq @ 3750 RPM

Please read my post again. I was discussing the reason that an OHV engine will typically have a larger displacement than an OHC engine yet similar power output. Titan's 5.6L and Ford's 5.4L Triton are physically larger engines (external dimensions) then GM's 5.3L Vortec. Had they been 4.6L OHC (to supposedly save fuel as the original poster implied) they would have had similar external weight/size characteristics compared to the Vortec 5.3L w/ lower power/torque outputs.