Flint: Blaming the Messenger

[oudidntkn0w]

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...92.A10756.html

More from the jaundiced keys of Jerry Flint

My dinner partner the other day was a high-rankingDetroit auto executive and whom was he blaming for his company's troubles?

The press.

We journalists love the foreigners, the Germans and Koreans but particularly the Japanese. We give them every break. We forgive their quality gaffes, we bury stories on their recalls, we just favor them. And we dismiss the improvements in Detroit's cars, in quality, in performance, especially in fuel economy. We dump on the home team and we suck up to the foreigners.

I shouldn't have been surprised. I have been hearing the same story from Detroit auto men for years, especially from the sales types who think that saying a car is great is enough to make it so, or the finance men who wouldn't know the difference and really don't care. I hear it from public relations types, and I read it from writers of letters-to-the-editors. We're just sellouts who favor the foreigners.

Remember last year when the Detroit Tigers were losing nearly 100 games, a terrible record? The sports writers must have been critical. But did Detroiters say, "The Tigers are okay, getting better every day. Those complaining sports writers must be Yankee fans."

No, Detroiters said, The Tigers stink. What's wrong? The manager was replaced. And guess what, the Tigers are leading the league in victories and I hope to see them in the World Series.

The Detroit Lions have been terrible since the Ford family bought them. I can remember when the Lions were winners. I actually saw Bobby Layne and Doak Walker play. Yeah. But when Detroit sportswriters criticize the Lions' management, do the people of Detroit say, "We want another losing season. It's only a game. Those complaining sportswriters must be Green Bay fans."

No, they say: "The Lions stink. Let's get a general manager, a coach, and a quarterback who know the game."

The Tigers and Lions fans know that management has been the problem. But in Detroit the auto executives still think their problem is the press.

The problem, of course, isn't the press. It's been the product, but the executives are too smart than to call the American people, the folks who buy those foreign cars, dumb or treasonous or foreigner-lovers. It's the press.

In July Toyota (including Lexus and Scion) outsold Ford and outsold Chrysler and closed in further on General Motors. Here are the numbers:

Toyota 146,266
Ford 90,483
DaimlerChrysler 55,660
General Motors 176,623

If we were to count just retail sales, not fleet sales to rent-a-car companies and the like, Toyota would be much closer to GM, too.

And while Detroit still leads the foreign competition in trucks, Detroit doesn't lead in all trucks. In small pickups, the Toyota Tacoma small pickup alone outsells both the Chevy and GMC small pickups combined. And Honda's minivan outsells all Ford and GM minivans combined.

Looking at the numbers, it's hard to say anything, but that American buyers still consider the foreign-based models better.

Frankly, like the ordinary American, the car writers probably give the foreign vehicles the benefit of a doubt because they've had such good records. Thus Toyota has had some recalls lately, but they get a pass because they've been so good in the past. They still come out leaders of practically every poll of car owners.


Why have they done so well here? I believe it is that the managements of the foreign companies generally are led by people who know something about cars. Often they are engineers. But whatever they studied in school, they understand the products and the business. Even more important, they seem to have a single goal: To build the best cars.

That hasn't been true at General Motors or Ford. At GM it's hard to find an engineer or car expert near the top, at least until Robert Lutz was hired as vice chairman. The leaders seem to be financial men who believe that costs are the number-one priority, not building the best vehicles. Certainly costs are important but the result has left GM years late, years late, in new engine and transmission developments, with the company still putting four-speed automatics in luxury cars (like the Cadillac DTS) when the competition is putting seven- and eight-speed transmissions in its luxury cars.

And the men at the top of Detroit automakers never admit any errors or missteps. No matter how much market share is lost, no matter what the dollar losses, they never take responsibility.

At Ford, at least, the constant turnover at the top is evidence of failure and dissatisfaction. There should be dissatisfaction. I've counted 13 distinct vehicles that Ford has killed in recent years, as strong evidence of inept product planning as anyone could find.

To their credit, both GM and Ford are working to improve their product. General Motors, in particular, seems to have a workable product plan and some of its cars and most of its trucks are as good as first-rate. GM still has problems, of course, but seems to be moving ahead.

What's sad is that in Detroit they still seem to think the press is behind their troubles.

[beelzebub]

Ultimately its the product that speaks for itself. All the marketing dollars cant convince a customer otherwise. Build a refined and relevant product and they will come eventually... i.e. if they arent pissed enough by their current rattleboxes.

[56 Starchief]

he's correct based on the points he made BUT

when the press lambasts the Cobalt for things like rear drums, while the Civic and Corolla at the time had them too but said nothing.....UMMMMMM

[SobeSVT]

The messenger does not have opinions. In this case what he calls the messenger is also the creator of the message and I agree much of the blame can be placed on it. That is the way it has, I completely believe in freedom of the press, but not admitting their responsability is absolutely absurd and has nothing to do with freedom of press, more like irresposible reprting.

Again Flint presents us with one of his useless pieces. Using a word that a few weeks was big here . . . "rubbish".

Starchief, you chose the wrong example, the Cobalt is one of those cars that allows the media to do what they are doing.

[DuSpinnst]

Flint is a retard.

[nadepalma]

Source: http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...92.A10756.html

Flint: Blaming the Messenger
Detroit carmakers blame the press for their failures.
by Jerry Flint
(2006-08-14)



My dinner partner the other day was a high-rankingDetroit auto executive and whom was he blaming for his company's troubles?

The press.

We journalists love the foreigners, the Germans and Koreans but particularly the Japanese. We give them every break. We forgive their quality gaffes, we bury stories on their recalls, we just favor them. And we dismiss the improvements in Detroit's cars, in quality, in performance, especially in fuel economy. We dump on the home team and we suck up to the foreigners.

I shouldn't have been surprised. I have been hearing the same story from Detroit auto men for years, especially from the sales types who think that saying a car is great is enough to make it so, or the finance men who wouldn't know the difference and really don't care. I hear it from public relations types, and I read it from writers of letters-to-the-editors. We're just sellouts who favor the foreigners.

Remember last year when the Detroit Tigers were losing nearly 100 games, a terrible record? The sports writers must have been critical. But did Detroiters say, "The Tigers are okay, getting better every day. Those complaining sports writers must be Yankee fans."

No, Detroiters said, The Tigers stink. What's wrong? The manager was replaced. And guess what, the Tigers are leading the league in victories and I hope to see them in the World Series.

The Detroit Lions have been terrible since the Ford family bought them. I can remember when the Lions were winners. I actually saw Bobby Layne and Doak Walker play. Yeah. But when Detroit sportswriters criticize the Lions' management, do the people of Detroit say, "We want another losing season. It's only a game. Those complaining sportswriters must be Green Bay fans."

No, they say: "The Lions stink. Let's get a general manager, a coach, and a quarterback who know the game."

The Tigers and Lions fans know that management has been the problem. But in Detroit the auto executives still think their problem is the press.

The problem, of course, isn't the press. It's been the product, but the executives are too smart than to call the American people, the folks who buy those foreign cars, dumb or treasonous or foreigner-lovers. It's the press.

In July Toyota (including Lexus and Scion) outsold Ford and outsold Chrysler and closed in further on General Motors. Here are the numbers:

Toyota 146,266
Ford 90,483
DaimlerChrysler 55,660
General Motors 176,623

If we were to count just retail sales, not fleet sales to rent-a-car companies and the like, Toyota would be much closer to GM, too.

And while Detroit still leads the foreign competition in trucks, Detroit doesn't lead in all trucks. In small pickups, the Toyota Tacoma small pickup alone outsells both the Chevy and GMC small pickups combined. And Honda's minivan outsells all Ford and GM minivans combined.

Looking at the numbers, it's hard to say anything, but that American buyers still consider the foreign-based models better.

Frankly, like the ordinary American, the car writers probably give the foreign vehicles the benefit of a doubt because they've had such good records. Thus Toyota has had some recalls lately, but they get a pass because they've been so good in the past. They still come out leaders of practically every poll of car owners.

Why have they done so well here? I believe it is that the managements of the foreign companies generally are led by people who know something about cars. Often they are engineers. But whatever they studied in school, they understand the products and the business. Even more important, they seem to have a single goal: To build the best cars.

That hasn't been true at General Motors or Ford. At GM it's hard to find an engineer or car expert near the top, at least until Robert Lutz was hired as vice chairman. The leaders seem to be financial men who believe that costs are the number-one priority, not building the best vehicles. Certainly costs are important but the result has left GM years late, years late, in new engine and transmission developments, with the company still putting four-speed automatics in luxury cars (like the Cadillac DTS) when the competition is putting seven- and eight-speed transmissions in its luxury cars.

And the men at the top of Detroit automakers never admit any errors or missteps. No matter how much market share is lost, no matter what the dollar losses, they never take responsibility.

At Ford, at least, the constant turnover at the top is evidence of failure and dissatisfaction. There should be dissatisfaction. I've counted 13 distinct vehicles that Ford has killed in recent years, as strong evidence of inept product planning as anyone could find.

To their credit, both GM and Ford are working to improve their product. General Motors, in particular, seems to have a workable product plan and some of its cars and most of its trucks are as good as first-rate. GM still has problems, of course, but seems to be moving ahead.

What's sad is that in Detroit they still seem to think the press is behind their troubles.

[espo19047]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

What's sad is that in Detroit they still seem to think the press is behind their troubles.

This article will not change my mind. Saying the press as a whole is the problem is not fair. Saying some of the press causes problems for the domestics is fair. If the writer wants to use a sports analogy he could have used Olympic basketball. We lost to the foreign competition but the writers said wait a minute "we are the best we shouldn't be losing."Now team USA is dominating again and it is being reported as such.

[01cavalier]

Wow, I'd say that I have to disagree with him. Detroit automakers have acknowledged that their product has not been up to par, and though great improvements have been made, sales have not really turned around yet. Too many times though I read articles where a car is test driven and they slam the car when it really is as good as or better than its foreign counterpart. So, to say that the press is not biased, to me, is incorrect even though that bias seems to be fading. At least GM gets some real credit, the efforts are truly paying off. It will take years to fully realize the benefits of this.

[tgagneguam]

You are correct, sir.

I receive daily news bulletins from TCC, and interestingly right below the abstract for Flint's editorial was an interesting abstract: "Toyota's recalls mounting."

Bias, indeed. Get your house in order, Detroit, and you will see people return to your dealerships to buy your wares... but not a moment sooner.

[MrMax]

When auto mags stop having performance oriented comparison tests where the American vehicle wins objectively, yet loses subjectively, then I'll say the press isn't biased.

[Al465]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

Source: http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...92.A10756.html

Flint: Blaming the Messenger
Detroit carmakers blame the press for their failures.
by Jerry Flint
(2006-08-14)



My dinner partner the other day was a high-rankingDetroit auto executive and whom was he blaming for his company's troubles?

The press.

We journalists love the foreigners, the Germans and Koreans but particularly the Japanese. We give them every break. We forgive their quality gaffes, we bury stories on their recalls, we just favor them. And we dismiss the improvements in Detroit's cars, in quality, in performance, especially in fuel economy. We dump on the home team and we suck up to the foreigners.

I shouldn't have been surprised. I have been hearing the same story from Detroit auto men for years, especially from the sales types who think that saying a car is great is enough to make it so, or the finance men who wouldn't know the difference and really don't care. I hear it from public relations types, and I read it from writers of letters-to-the-editors. We're just sellouts who favor the foreigners.

Remember last year when the Detroit Tigers were losing nearly 100 games, a terrible record? The sports writers must have been critical. But did Detroiters say, "The Tigers are okay, getting better every day. Those complaining sports writers must be Yankee fans."

No, Detroiters said, The Tigers stink. What's wrong? The manager was replaced. And guess what, the Tigers are leading the league in victories and I hope to see them in the World Series.

The Detroit Lions have been terrible since the Ford family bought them. I can remember when the Lions were winners. I actually saw Bobby Layne and Doak Walker play. Yeah. But when Detroit sportswriters criticize the Lions' management, do the people of Detroit say, "We want another losing season. It's only a game. Those complaining sportswriters must be Green Bay fans."

No, they say: "The Lions stink. Let's get a general manager, a coach, and a quarterback who know the game."

The Tigers and Lions fans know that management has been the problem. But in Detroit the auto executives still think their problem is the press.

The problem, of course, isn't the press. It's been the product, but the executives are too smart than to call the American people, the folks who buy those foreign cars, dumb or treasonous or foreigner-lovers. It's the press.

In July Toyota (including Lexus and Scion) outsold Ford and outsold Chrysler and closed in further on General Motors. Here are the numbers:

Toyota 146,266
Ford 90,483
DaimlerChrysler 55,660
General Motors 176,623

If we were to count just retail sales, not fleet sales to rent-a-car companies and the like, Toyota would be much closer to GM, too.

And while Detroit still leads the foreign competition in trucks, Detroit doesn't lead in all trucks. In small pickups, the Toyota Tacoma small pickup alone outsells both the Chevy and GMC small pickups combined. And Honda's minivan outsells all Ford and GM minivans combined.

Looking at the numbers, it's hard to say anything, but that American buyers still consider the foreign-based models better.

Frankly, like the ordinary American, the car writers probably give the foreign vehicles the benefit of a doubt because they've had such good records. Thus Toyota has had some recalls lately, but they get a pass because they've been so good in the past. They still come out leaders of practically every poll of car owners.

Why have they done so well here? I believe it is that the managements of the foreign companies generally are led by people who know something about cars. Often they are engineers. But whatever they studied in school, they understand the products and the business. Even more important, they seem to have a single goal: To build the best cars.

That hasn't been true at General Motors or Ford. At GM it's hard to find an engineer or car expert near the top, at least until Robert Lutz was hired as vice chairman. The leaders seem to be financial men who believe that costs are the number-one priority, not building the best vehicles. Certainly costs are important but the result has left GM years late, years late, in new engine and transmission developments, with the company still putting four-speed automatics in luxury cars (like the Cadillac DTS) when the competition is putting seven- and eight-speed transmissions in its luxury cars.

And the men at the top of Detroit automakers never admit any errors or missteps. No matter how much market share is lost, no matter what the dollar losses, they never take responsibility.

At Ford, at least, the constant turnover at the top is evidence of failure and dissatisfaction. There should be dissatisfaction. I've counted 13 distinct vehicles that Ford has killed in recent years, as strong evidence of inept product planning as anyone could find.

To their credit, both GM and Ford are working to improve their product. General Motors, in particular, seems to have a workable product plan and some of its cars and most of its trucks are as good as first-rate. GM still has problems, of course, but seems to be moving ahead.

What's sad is that in Detroit they still seem to think the press is behind their troubles.

Yes, GM has made mistakes but the press has been unreasonably tough on them. Anyone who says different has got to have their head examined !!!

[VibenPontiac]

He has a point to a certain extend. The big 2.5 may have a culprit in the press but the press can't be the only reason for declining sales. That been said they don't get the breaks and even Flint himself seems to admit there are problems in reviews overlooked for the imports...

Originally Posted by Flint

Frankly, like the ordinary American, the car writers probably give the foreign vehicles the benefit of a doubt because they've had such good records. Thus Toyota has had some recalls lately, but they get a pass because they've been so good in the past.

[DuSpinnst]

I really hate this guy.

[boblutzfan]

Originally Posted by MrMax

When auto mags stop having performance oriented comparison tests where the American vehicle wins objectively, yet loses subjectively, then I'll say the press isn't biased.

Very good point.

However, the ability to hustle two tons of steal down a mountain road doesn't equal good daily driving pleasure. It wasn't until the last five years or so that GM's interiors started seeing improvement - places that I would want to spend a couple of hours every day. This is where I think the tide will eventually change. The fact that the SRX was rated so high by the magazines proves that they aren't totally biased... the interior gave them reason enough to flunk the tests.

I expect to see better comparisons against the Aura, 2008 CTS, 2008 Malibu and 3.6L G6. The next year will be very interesting. The Automotive Press will have the chance to show us if they are really biased or not.

[Mikkoo]

Originally Posted by espo19047

This article will not change my mind. Saying the press as a whole is the problem is not fair. Saying some of the press causes problems for the domestics is fair. If the writer wants to use a sports analogy he could have used Olympic basketball. We lost to the foreign competition but the writers said wait a minute "we are the best we shouldn't be losing."Now team USA is dominating again and it is being reported as such.

Dominating in which parts of the country?? Not on the west coast. And with what vehicles?
As far as minivans go GM's are not in the same league as any Japanese or
Korean for that matter.