Finger-pointing Begins as Senate Nixes Auto Vote

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

Seems to me if Bush is really worried about his presidential legacy, maybe agreeing to bridge loans for the big 3 could help his already dented & tarnished presidency some, maybe alot. *shrugs*

I would have thought that too. The economy has more then enough problems right now, an automaker in Ch. 11 at this time is just too much.

[Hunid Racks]

The nation has gone insane.

As stupid as the alleged stealing of "W"s from keyboards by the Clinton staff was, the republicans want to make sure that the manufacturing in the mid west is gone when Obama takes over.

The next question is how brainless the public and media react to this nonsense.

Of course, they will be outraged about the plane the executives fly on.

[ModerateRight]

Regarding chapter 11 customer losses; I think GM's biggest hit in sales will occur over the next few months (including this one), largely due to uncertainty. Once things get started (whether it's CH11 with some type of customer warranty guaranty or gov loans) people will come back, maybe not in the same numbers, but they will come back.

[tholland]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

So it that it? No bailout? For sure?

We could see a Chapter 11 by Xmas, possibly Chrysler.

If there is no bailout, can GM hang on until Obama is sworn in? And could the Democrats get a bailout in place quick enough?

Has the fat lady started to sing??

No, they are talking about possibly approving the $25B already approved for mileage improvements to be released for general requirements. If that doesn't happen then it will be up to Congress to cancel some of their vacation time to get something done or Paulson or Bush to act on their own.

[03xtreme]

Originally Posted by tholland

No, they are talking about possibly approving the $25B already approved for mileage improvements to be released for general requirements. If that doesn't happen then it will be up to Congress to cancel some of their vacation time to get something done or Paulson or Bush to act on their own.

yeah because southern republicans are so interesting in seeing domestic labor succeed they'd love to make compromises themselves to save a few hundred thousand jobs in democrats states....

who just ousted their beautiful fiscal policies and cohorts.....

yeah, maybe a couple northern repubs are thinking logically but it looks like political revenge is the order of the day here. why blame themselves, they did nothing wrong right?

[SimonDavid]

I doubt there is going to be a bailout during the transition period. The democrats are not going to go out on a limb for this when they only have 60 seats in the senate and the republicans are not on board and the president elect hasnt even picked his treasury secretary yet.

In any case 25 billion is just 9 months cash burn for GM alone.

I would bet on one of the big 3 filing for ch 11 before xmas.

Then once the new administration is sworn in the feds will come in as part of the reconstruction process after ch11, probably by splitting off the retirees into a federally funded legacy company. This would then allow a speedy exit from ch 11 for a slimmed down Detroit minus legacy costs, UAW contracts and Chrysler.

[SimonDavid]

Originally Posted by Hunid Racks

The nation has gone insane.

As stupid as the alleged stealing of "W"s from keyboards by the Clinton staff was, the republicans want to make sure that the manufacturing in the mid west is gone when Obama takes over.

The next question is how brainless the public and media react to this nonsense.

Of course, they will be outraged about the plane the executives fly on.

It kind of looks that way, the republicans are becoming more and more a southern party, and good ole boys whose states are home to the transplants aren't in the mood for bailing out the yankees.

[jbernie]

Iwas talking to my wife earlier tonight about the whole issue, she knows I am very pro GM but not quite blind pro GM , I was explaining to her what had been going on and asked her a simple question....

If your current vehicle (95 4Runner) was to fail tomorrow, knowing what is hanging over the Detroit automakers, would you resonably consider buying one of their vehicles as a replacement?

The answer was no, not because she doesn't desire the vehicles as there are many GM products she does desire, but because if she wants a new vehicle she wants to have reasonable certainty that the warranty etc can be honored while it is valid.

So pretty much she is ruling out the Detroit 3 unless she was to get an offer where the savings on the vehicle vs comparable offerings from Toyota/Honda/etc was such that you had a safety net of sorts towards vehicle costs.

Now, we aren't actually in the market to buy but I can't see things for GM improving when the prospect of bankruptcy is almost self fullfilling as people will not buy because of the concerns and it will only push GM closer to the edge.

As to the politics, Obama is a Chicago guy, has stated he wants/is determined to help the automakers but the Republicans don't seem to be interested in leaving much left for him to help. Not sure if it is just the Republicans, but overall the desire to not help, regardless of party is very concerning, it would appear they are willing to play a massive game of chance on the automakers not failing.

Loan $25 billion now or Lose $150 billion later?

[kpc655]

Originally Posted by Supernoma

Cant imagine much will come of chapter 11, perspective buyers will run away in droves.

It looks more like buyout or bust. Morbid curiosity makes me wonder what GM would get if they butchered up.

I'll commit to buying a new Z06 only IF they enter Ch. 11.

There's a better chance of a viable GM in 5 years with a reorganization than without it.

[tholland]

It looks like GMAC has filed with the fed to become a bank holding company so it can tap the $700B...

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...6CFFF0794E6%7D

So it looks like this was the next option if the hearings didn't go so well. The money may not go directly to GM, but it may get the financing working again.

[wescoent]

At this point, either the Senate throws together a last-ditch bridge loan, Paulson goes rogue and loans them the money from the TARP, or GM files for Ch. 11 by the end of the month.

Or, go into hardcore asset-sale mode, and try to gather enough cash to wait it out.

[eaton53]

Looks like the Republicans are bound and determined to get rid of the UAW, no matter the cost.

[A Bum In A Bus]

The market this morning will decide what will happen with the low interest loan. If it opens with a dramatic drop, things will happen, if not the Republicans will continue to drag this thing out.

By the way it is not Senator Shelby, it's Senator Mercedes Benz, he has crawled so far up MB's rear he couldn't see Detroit on a clear day from the space shuttle. He is also trying to get a new Hyundai plant, so he is too busy kissing up to the Japanese to even consider the rest of the country. What a useless slug.

[kpc655]

Originally Posted by eaton53

Looks like the Republicans are bound and determined to get rid of the UAW, no matter the cost.

Dem's control congress.

[SimonDavid]

Originally Posted by wescoent

At this point, either the Senate throws together a last-ditch bridge loan, Paulson goes rogue and loans them the money from the TARP, or GM files for Ch. 11 by the end of the month.

Or, go into hardcore asset-sale mode, and try to gather enough cash to wait it out.

Paulson has said he's not going to use TARP - he's a Wall St guy.

They'd need a few republicans to vote for it to get it through the "legacy" 50/50 Senate and somehow I don't see that happening. They were unimpressed by Wagoner's performance on the hill. I mean the CEO of a company on deaths door admits that he "is not that familiar with the ch 11 process" ? WTF?

The only assets that would bring in serious cash are China and Opel, which means effectively moving into liquidation mode.