EPA Asked to OK California Emissions Law

[mgescuro]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=3200186


California Urges EPA to Approve Greenhouse Gas Emissions Waiver



Top California officials implored federal environmental regulators Tuesday for permission to unilaterally impose reductions on greenhouse gases from cars and other vehicles.

If California gets the federal waiver from the Environmental Protection Agency that it needs to implement its emissions law, at least 11 other states are prepared to follow its lead.

"This is more important than any issue that EPA's going to have to face," California Attorney General Jerry Brown told an EPA air quality hearing board.

Brown asked the regulators to relay a message to EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson.

"We want him to speak truth to power," said Brown. "There is a tremendous influence of the oil industry. We know (Vice President) Cheney and (President) Bush are oilmen, they think like oil folks. ... We say grant the waiver."

The EPA panel that gathered in suburban Arlington, Va., was led by Margo Oge, director of EPA's office of transportation and air quality. She gave no indication of how the agency might be leaning as a daylong hearing got under way. The session included testimony from the auto industry and from officials of other states and environmentalists.

At issue is a 2002 California law that requires automakers to cut emissions by 25 percent from cars and light trucks and 18 percent from sport utility vehicles starting with the 2009 model year. The law can't take effect unless California gets a federal waiver.

While air pollution standards typically are set by the federal government, California has a unique status under the federal Clean Air Act that allows the state to enact its own rules as long as it receives permission from the EPA. Other states can then choose to follow either the federal or California standards.

The EPA has declined to say how it will act on the waiver request, and Tuesday's hearing came after more than a year of inaction since the state submitted its petition in 2005.

More at LINK.

[FStephenMasek]

I do see some good news, the more that the far left (and Arnold is one of them) pushes such stuff, the more likely they will ultimately loose elections and be replaced. Of course, things may have to get worse before they get better, but I remain optimistic.

[K-1]

So... is it all the celebrities that give CA delusions of grandeur or is it something else?

[yoblues]

Originally Posted by FStephenMasek

I do see some good news, the more that the far left (and Arnold is one of them) pushes such stuff, the more likely they will ultimately loose elections and be replaced. Of course, things may have to get worse before they get better, but I remain optomistic.

Don't bet your house on that statement. When the air turns brown people tend to think about their kids breathing in all that brown air. There are going to be huge changes in environmental rules for vehicles comming, it's best GM gets on the right side of the issue ahead of Japan Inc.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by K-1

So... is it all the celebrities that give CA delusions of grandeur or is it something else?

It's the fact that we have 38,000,000 people living in the state with nearly 60M cars on the road.

[Ming]

A bit off-topic, but please indulge me.

World War II forced America to be all it could be. Same went for its enemies. The Germans went from WWI type biplane aircraft to jet fighters during the course of the war. The U.S. made some incredible leaps and bounds as well, including such innovations as using nitrous oxide to catch fighter jets with U.S. propeller-powered fighters.

Another experimental tactic was installing nitrous oxide injection into Mustangs. When chasing an Me 262, the pilot could press a button injecting the nitrous oxide into the engine, producing a quick burst of speed.

By comparison, our commercial aircraft and even our space shuttle have been extremely slow to advance technologically since then.

External, seemingly impossible pressures put on the automobile companies might not be so bad as everyone makes it out to be. I don't doubt that GM could rise to the challenge, and find a way to do so for much less money than they say. Toyota's gas hogging Sequoia and Land Cruiser would also have to abide by these rules, would they not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262

[K-1]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

It's the fact that we have 38,000,000 people living in the state with nearly 60M cars on the road.

Shouldn't a better mass transit system be in your future, rather than marginal, at best, emissions requirements?

[steined]

Maybe if they wouldn't start all those forest fires and burn hummers in dealerships, the air would clean up without need for further regulation of already VERY clean auto emissions.

[yoblues]

Originally Posted by K-1

Shouldn't a better mass transit system be in your future, rather than marginal, at best, emissions requirements?

L.A. had one of the largest Mass Transit systems in the country once. People abandoned it in the 1950's for the car and they ripped it up. Unfortunately just because you have Mass Transit does not mean people will use it.

[ronald mcretard]

A lot of people here in L.A. drive Lexus', BMW's, Mercedes', etc. Are they all going to have to start buying more fuel efficient cars? Somehow I don't see those companies designing special high-mileage cars just for California.

[K-1]

Originally Posted by yoblues

L.A. had one of the largest Mass Transit systems in the country once. People abandoned it in the 1950's for the car and they ripped it up. Unfortunately just because you have Mass Transit does not mean people will use it.

True, but marginally lowering emissions won't do jack. I suppose those 38 million people will automatically run out and buy 60 million new lower emissions cars? Maybe they should fix the root of the problem instead of trying to apply a band-aid.

[Elk]

It will be funny when all the BMW, Mercedes and Porsche dealers start going under. GM even with all their SUVs still meets CAFE standards. The only reason BMW, Mercedes and Porsche are still selling cars in America is because they pay CAFE fines. If California starts banning cars based on fuel economy they are screwed. Porsche will be the first to go.

[Ming]

Originally Posted by K-1

True, but marginally lowering emissions won't do jack.

Last I heard, Detroit was having a loudly broadcast heart attack over this "marginal lowering". If its so marginal, you'd think they'd have no problem with it.

As for the Euro cars, perhaps California will finally wake up and consider the Euro-V Diesels as another path towards conservation and get out of the "diesels are dirty and smelly" mindset. Mandate Biodiesl as a large percentage of all diesel sold in Cali (B30 or something like that). Mercedes at least has no lack of high-tech diesel engines.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by Ming

As for the Euro cars, perhaps California will finally wake up and consider the Euro-V Diesels as another path towards conservation and get out of the "diesels are dirty and smelly" mindset. Mandate Biodiesl as a large percentage of all diesel sold in Cali (B30 or something like that). Mercedes at least has no lack of high-tech diesel engines.

It’s not a mind set, it’s a fact. These "clean diesels" don’t meet CA emission standard.

[nailhead425]

The brown cloud isn't related to Carbon Dioxide.
Reducing Carbon Dioxide emissions is nothing more than a ploy to appease the ubber-environmentalists. We should be more concerned about Volcano emissions. After all, why is Mars getting hotter?

What is going to happen is that we will go back to the late 70s and 80s when some engine/transmission combos weren't available in California. Want an Impala SS? Not in California, New York, Mass, Oregon, etc.

Originally Posted by Ming

A bit off-topic, but please indulge me.

World War II forced America to be all it could be. Same went for its enemies. The Germans went from WWI type biplane aircraft to jet fighters during the course of the war. The U.S. made some incredible leaps and bounds as well, including such innovations as using nitrous oxide to catch fighter jets with U.S. propeller-powered fighters.

Actually, the Germans pioneered the use of N2O (Nitrous Oxide) in fighter aircraft. Mike Thermos, the founder of Nitrous Oxide Systems used to have several pressure vessels with swastika stamps, some from 1937.

The jet developement program was too little, too late. There weren't enough in production to make a siginificant impact and their production facilities, those that remained were in hardened bunkers, were simply not up to the task. German plane and pilot losses were very high and the Jet was their best bet to increase the rate of survival.