The Energy Bill: 35 MPG cars are coming, right? Wrong!

[spykebn]

Here is a really good article about the true impact of the new CAFE 35 MPG standard. As the article mentions, CAFE is measured under a different standard than the EPA mileage estimate that is currently displayed on car stickers.

"What does all this mean for the energy bill? It means by 2020 manufacturers will certainly need to improve their fleets' mileage over today's numbers. However, while 35 mpg makes a great sound bite from the floor of Congress, the actual, real-world mileage needed will be approximately 26.5 mpg. That's 24 percent better than today's requirement, but not the 40 percent jump all the politicians are crowing about."

More at link:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/690?CF...TOKEN=63788666

This should definetly dampen the doom and gloom around here.

[Joevette]

loophole, im sure some environmentalists will not agree with this

[K-1]

Originally Posted by Joevette

loophole, im sure some environmentalists will not agree with this

It's no secret that the CAFE ratings are computed differently than the EPA ratings. Surely the all-knowing enviro-weenies are aware of this...

[fastball]

Good. Shove it up those tree huggers noses.

I knew the actual requirements could not be as rediculous as they say on paper. Just knowing congress, if they say they intend to improve something by 40%, you're lucky if the actual improvement is better than 10%.

Either way, I'll still have 8 cylinders of gas sucking combustion to play with.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by Joevette

loophole, im sure some environmentalists will not agree with this

No this has been well-known by everybody involved with the issue from the beginning, The NHTSA monitors CAFE and the EPA is responsible for what's on the Maroney labels. The two are entirely different.

There still is some work to be done but it's not a huge issue. The makers all knew this.

[zete]

Originally Posted by spykebn

Here is a really good article about the true impact of the new CAFE 35 MPG standard. As the article mentions, CAFE is measured under a different standard than the EPA mileage estimate that is currently displayed on car stickers.

"What does all this mean for the energy bill? It means by 2020 manufacturers will certainly need to improve their fleets' mileage over today's numbers. However, while 35 mpg makes a great sound bite from the floor of Congress, the actual, real-world mileage needed will be approximately 26.5 mpg. That's 24 percent better than today's requirement, but not the 40 percent jump all the politicians are crowing about."

More at link:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/690?CF...TOKEN=63788666

This should definetly dampen the doom and gloom around here.

But then aren't all the automakers almost there already? I thought I read on another thread that GM was pretty close. I'm sure someone like Honda is there already, but GM and Toyota can't be far off -- though if Toyota keeps releasing monster trucks it'll be going in the wrong direction, and no 2-mode to help it move in the forward direction. (Man their new little slogan is fun)

[Joevette]

so if this is the case, then what is all the whinning from lutz and all of the doom and gloom stories going around about the end of muscle car and crap like that. It sounded like this was going to be the end all according the the stories posted on here, but this makes it sound like the complete opposite

[chakis24]

all it would take to close this "loophole" (although it really isnt) is for CAFE to simply adopt EPA testing procedures. that doesnt seem like something that couldnt happen. it wouldnt be smart to bank on CAFE staying in the past.

[I-Love-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by zete

But then aren't all the automakers almost there already? I thought I read on another thread that GM was pretty close. I'm sure someone like Honda is there already, but GM and Toyota can't be far off -- though if Toyota keeps releasing monster trucks it'll be going in the wrong direction, and no 2-mode to help it move in the forward direction. (Man their new little slogan is fun)

No, GM is at about 29 MPG. So they would have to boost fuel efficiency by 20%. Which... obviously can't be done in an inexpensive way. Unless they can sell a massive amount of Volts and Beats, they'll have to sell fewer full size trucks and SUVs. Which by the way is where MOST of their money comes from.

So yeah. These new regulations really stick it to the US automakers while the Asian automakers will barely have to change anything. I'm not sure where Honda is at, but I know Toyota is at 34 MPG. The fact that they didn't approve of the new CAFE standards shows how much they want to get into the full size truck / suv segment.

[63GrandSport001]

Ive been saying this in other threads for the longest, the fact that the EPA Cafe numbers are not the same that we see on the window sticker at a dealer. Based on CAFE the Tahoe gets 27MPG on the highway, so I dont see how this new 35MPG law is going to be so hard to hit.

[I-Love-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

Ive been saying this in other threads for the longest, the fact that the EPA Cafe numbers are not the same that we see on the window sticker at a dealer. Based on CAFE the Tahoe gets 27MPG on the highway, so I dont see how this new 35MPG law is going to be so hard to hit.

The point is right now GM is at 29 MPG. They will have to improve efficiency over 20%, which isn't easy, or free.

[rcracedriver]

CAFE is a waste of legislation enacted for by politicians to have their cake of cheap fuel and eat it too at the expense of the auto industry.

Its not the Rate of consumption, but the consumption of fuel we should be reducing. Simply setting averages for automakers to achieve does nothing to encourage drivers to:
-drive less (commuting shorter, locating closer to work/amenities)
-use more public transportation
-discourage driving work trucks for daily transportation
-encourage developement of efficient cities
-encourage consumers to buy more fuel efficient vehicles

[mr_bots]

So this is pretty much some crap the politicians are pushing to make themselves look golden in the eyes of the ignorant public? So it pretty much boils down to GM has 12 years to get AFM, VVT, DI, and 6 speed trannies in everything and 3 valve heads on small blocks. That doesn't sound too bad.

[I-Love-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by mr_bots

So this is pretty much some crap the politicians are pushing to make themselves look golden in the eyes of the ignorant public? So it pretty much boils down to GM has 12 years to get AFM, VVT, DI, and 6 speed trannies in everything and 3 valve heads on small blocks. That doesn't sound too bad.

All of that stuff costs money. And isn't going to add up to anywhere near the 20% GM needs.

[t-rex]

Originally Posted by rcracedriver

-encourage developement of efficient cities

I actually have a Master's Degree in this field and was my chosen profession for a decade. But after beating my head against a wall all those years trying to fight suburbia-obsessed local planning agencies I gave it up entirely and went into teaching.

If the American public had the slightest inkling how much of our public spending is dedicated solely to sprawl, they'd think twice about how they live...