GM Inside News Forum banner

Don't write off midsize cars yet

4K views 29 replies 17 participants last post by  jpd80 
#1 ·
Toyota marketing exec: Don't write off midsize cars yet
January 10, 2017
Hans Greimel
AutoNews.com

DETROIT -- Midsize cars were among the biggest sales losers last year as customers flocked instead to crossovers and other light trucks. But good old competition may reinvigorate the segment as soon as next year, when Japan’s big three roll out redesigns of their flagship four-doors.

Jack Hollis, group vice president for marketing for Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A., predicts falling midsize sedan sales will not only flatten out but may even start to increase again in 2018.

The segment’s stabilization will begin with the launch of the redesigned Toyota Camry this summer and be reinforced by the expected introduction of a next-generation Honda Accord in the autumn and then the redesigned Nissan Altima in early 2018, Hollis predicted.

“When you get into next year and you look at 2018, I believe with these three products and the excitement they bring back to that segment, I don’t see it falling anymore,” he said at the Detroit auto show, where Toyota unveiled a sporty, aggressively styled next-generation Camry.

CONTINUE AT LINK ABOVE
 
See less See more
#2 ·
The mid sized sedan market shouldn't be written off because it still moves a lot of metal and brings in a lot of revenue, although with sales shrinking if this doesn't turn around car companies will invest less into their offerings in the segment instead opting to put that money into crossovers. It would be dumb to completely abandon such a market segment unless you were doing really poorly in the segment. Which might be why the Chrysler 200 and Dodge Avenger is/will be gone. There might be a few others on the bottom of the sales ladder who would likely go away for whom they just can't justify spending the money to develop a car with low sales to start and shrinking.

I believe there were only 3 cars in the segment with any sales growth the Subaru Legacy, Buick Regal, and Chevy Malibu.
 
#3 ·
Actually..... first out or last out is often preferred in a case like this.

Since Regal is a Premium Brand offering, it's even worse for the Mass Market Mid Size Segment ie Legacy and Malibu where the only two that finished positive.

It's fine to also count Mass Market plus Premium but if you do, completeness gives a better result.

Matter of fact, to also appreciate the fail with Cars like this or better said, for cars - so often with these kinds of fundamental shortcomings, you can usefully look at all Mid Size Car Product together.

Meaning Mass Market + Premium + 'Luxury' + Uber Premium/ Lux / etc.
 
#4 ·
You really should compare the near luxury brand offering to the near luxury brand offerings so compare the Buick Regal to the Acura (whatever they call it now days). Some sites just throw the Regal in with other mainstream offerings which probably because in recent history it competed in that segment. Also the mainstream offerings in the segment get pretty nice in the higher up trims so there is overlap between the two segments.
 
#6 ·
I look at a bunch of things. By Segment, by this by that, with this with that etc etc.

All when used as a group, are well worth it.

Right now as an example, a somewhat unique and critical illumination is provided by..... lumping all Car Product together versus ..... anything else.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Kinda whistling past the graveyard story.

And GM FINALLY offers some legitimately sexy front drivers with presence and longer cab to axle for a nice balanced look. Just when the bottom completely fell out.

BTW, I'm part of the problem, at least in that I couldn't convince my wife to get an ats awd turbo instead of a Nissan Rogue SL that cost about the same. Appeals to the depreciation fell on deaf ears - not to mention the Rogue has pretty high depreciation too -(we were buying lightly used). That ats is practically godayum chitty chitty bang bang and she goes for the pano-roof - (which of course, rattles whenever open) generic mobile. And she now complains her car looks like every one else on the road! She used to have a PT Cruiser. I tried to argue the Cad was a like yuppie bimmer three, but no, CUV. BTW, we don't even have kids.

I think the new Malibu is the best one ever in the front drive era, but something snapped in people.

Saying that I do think a comeback is possible, and I think especially in the Kia Stinger mold.
 
#9 ·
The new redesigns in the midsize segment doesn't make a difference at all as to why I went from a good mid-sized car to a compact SUV. After many mid-sized sedans over the years, I switched to a compact SUV because it is taller that allows my wife and I to get in and out of it easier (we're old), we can see over the other traffic better and the ground clearance keeps us from dragging the front bumper when there is a deep dip going from one street to another as we did with our last 2 sedans. Also, they have dramatically improved the fuel economy in compact SUVs to the point that they are very close to most mid-sized sedans. I will probably keep the easier to park compact SUV when I get another.
 
#29 · (Edited)
You don't compare mid-sized to mid-sized because they don't match up. I drove a mid-sized sedan 75,000 miles and traded for a compact sized SUV. I had a 2011 Kia Optima and replaced it with a 2016 CRV EX-L that I now have over 18,000 miles on. The fuel mileage is almost identical at mid 30s on the highway and high 20s overall. My insurance premium went down for a 5 year newer car that had a higher MSRP. The tire size is similar and they are wearing at least as well on the SUV as they did on the car. And best of all, I can carry a lot more stuff in the SUV than I could the sedan because you can stack it much higher. The SUV also has a longer maintenance interval. My operating expenses for my SUV are lower than they were for my mid-size sedan (and their curb weight is within 100 pounds of each otherO.
Exactly.

You describe and understand a big part of what is actually happening in the market - all over the place.

CUVs ( and certain SUV / MVs ) are in fact now fully dominating the practical space, while the car product has the other.

And separately, I just gotta' laugh at the notion that even the 'big' SUVs are the only 'pigs' to have to try and push around in tighter and or denser situations including and especially so for Parking. And no, I'm not talking about the Pick Ups.


-----

Interesting Incentive chart for the Mid size Cars here ( @ the bottom ) - with plenty of unpleasant surprises for more than a few - but not all.

Oh, how the 'mighty' are falling ....



http://www.autonews.com/article/201...ses-style-sportiness-with-2018-camry-makeover
 
#10 · (Edited)
North America will probably be the last place where mid-size cars are still mainstream and sell in (lower but) good numbers.
In other markets, mid-size car sales have dramatically been affected by CUVs/SUVs and more upmarket new small cars.
 
#13 ·
In Europe, the mainstream mid-size sector had been decimated long before CUV/SUVs - hastened by the switch to FWD for compact hatchbacks which had as much internal space as mid-size saloons with better versatility - and the trend for business users to switch from a mainstream mid-size to a premium compact which were cheaper to run thanks to better residuals.

Using North American sizing of mid-size, the European mainstream full-size died in the early '00s with GM lasting longer than Ford - and using European sizing (they are different) the European mainstream mid-size is now in terminal decline due to the trend to CUV/SUV.
 
#11 ·
Everybody I know with an SUV is spending far more money per year keeping them going compared to mid size sedans. Things like insurance, tire cost and upkeep are greater. Gas mileage is lower comparing a mid size SUV to a mid size car or a compact CUV to a compact sedan. Many seem to be suffering from rear tires wear. Handling is nowhere near as good and in some cases rear storage is less behind the rear seat. Of course these SUV/CUV's do offer up in the air seating and visibility, AWD traction (also offered on certain mid size sedans), towing and more rugged structures. Different strokes for different folks.
 
#18 ·
I was on the bandwagon. Until I started searching for a Forte5 (hatch, a modified low form of SUV). If I'd impulse-purchased the one I located in June or July, all would probably be well now at Neanderthal Garages. Alas.

Then I drove other critters. The Elantra form of hatch. Then the civilian form of Elantra, aka sedan. Then Civic hatch & sedan. Then I drove Mazda3 sedan. Somewhere in there a Forte sedan 6M, selling for 12 grand last summer.

And so it goes, or went. Now I'm pretty much decided on a sedan, the place where I spent my money for decades. The lines are nicer. The ride is better than Soul. Not quite as handy, after all there are lots of places a 163" car can fit where others just drive on by.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingElv!s
#19 ·
The Malibu is a new design that replaces a horrible, slow selling car. I can see why sales are up over last year.

The Legacy has been around a few years. It was refreshed in 2015, but 2016 was carry over. I'm kind of surprised it was up.

Looking forward to seeing the new Accord. Didn't think it would be out so soon.
 
#26 ·
#21 · (Edited)
I think the main point is that it's going to be hard to claim a significant part of a segment that has been basically cemented by other automakers. We are seeing that now with compact cars, you won't see much movement across brands now since customers loyal to the segment are likely loyal to a brand (Honda and Toyota have this locked up). Crossovers is where you want to secure your next-generation of customers. But we have almost certainly seen the golden age of midsize sedans just end and within the next 10 years I'm sure the 3-box shape will be mostly gone. Things will continue to reshape and evolve rapidly with autonomous tech and electrification.
 
#23 ·
Good Point.

This is GM's problem in the Mid-Size segment and there is no excuse for it since GM used to "Own" this segment.

GM's poor mid-size strategy has put it in the lower part of the segment now and doubt it will move much with the new Malibu as it is not feature/price competitive with the leading Accord (345,225), Altima (307,380) and Camry (388,618).

Even the Subaru Legacy/Outback (65,306 + 182,898 = 248,204) outsold the Malibu/Regal (227,881 + 19,833 = 247,714) in 2016, and GM sold (2) Malibu models and offered give away pricing on the Malibu Limited and Regal to move the metal with Malibu increasing Fleet sales multiple times during the year to do the same. Even Fusion (265,840) sold more than Malibu/Regal 247,714).

Chevrolet must revise the Malibu's feature/price/trims to make them more competitive and easier for customers to understand and be less costly for distribution in order to increase sales into the mid to upper 200,000 range.

Regal must move down to compete directly with the Legacy/Outback in order to improve overall sales to the 50,000 to 100,000 range, gain market share and increase sales of higher end trims.

Malibu is not going to sell in the 300,000 range and needs a properly placed Regal to give GM a 300,000 to 375,000 total for Malibu/Regal so GM gets a larger piece of the segment that is profitable enough to sustain.
 
#24 ·
Seeing that Compact cars are growing in size and internal passenger space,
are we at the point where manufacturers could / should add more trunk space
and turn them into small mid sized cars and sell them for more money?

See, that way, mid sized car plants could be filled up by consolidating cars
on common platforms and increasing scales of economy.
 
#25 ·
Just the opposite, Compact and Mid-Size Cars have become too expensive compared to CUV/SUV alternatives that offer more utility.

What should be happening is more shared platforms between compact/midsize/large cars in Coupe/Sedan/Wagon and CUV/SUV/Crossover and Minivan.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top