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Dodge and Chevy Need a Scion FR-S

8K views 84 replies 49 participants last post by  supraracer 
#1 ·
Dodge and Chevy Need a Scion FR-S
Torque News
By Patrick Rall
2014-10-23

Will Chevrolet and/or Dodge Come Up with an FR-S Competitor?
For years now, the Chrysler Group has played around with the idea of a smaller rear wheel drive sports car, including models like the Dodge Razor and the Dodge Demon Concept. Unfortunately, there is no intent to bring out anything like these models in the near future, but considering that parent company Fiat worked with Mazda to create the new Miata (via Alfa Romeo), I suppose that there is a slight chance to see a small, efficient and affordable sports car to compete with the Scion FR-S down the road. Dodge lovers could have a small, affordable performance car below the Challenger that would offer the same fun to drive factor as the Scion FR-S.

As for Chevrolet, there have been rumors for a couple years now that GM is indeed working on a small sporty car that is based on the 2012 Chevy Code 130R Concept from the Detroit Auto Show. That concept was a small rear wheel drive model powered by a turbocharged 1.4L engine that could provide the added punch that the FR-S needs. While these are nothing but unsubstantiated rumors, the Code 130R Concept is proof that the General has at least looked at building a proper FR-S fighter.

There is clearly a market for a smaller-than-a-muscle car performance model, but right now, you cannot buy a sporty model from either Chevrolet or Dodge with such strong handling, strong fuel economy and a low price like the Scion FR-S. It might not pack the power of the muscle cars, but the FR-S is dollar for dollar more fun to drive than anything in a similar price range from those two top American performance car brands.

*Full Article at Link
 
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#47 ·
Exactly

Sales are down for both FR-S and BRZ in 2014 and neither lit up the sales charts, not only that many people do not know they even exist (or really care).

GM should spend the money it would throw away on a BRZ/FR-S and put it towards the Camaro or a Cruze Coupe.
 
#4 ·
I was thinking about this the other day:

The Challenger is truly a muscle car, as it is size-wize much larger than the Camaro and Mustang, and I think that works for them. I think Dodge could benefit from a small(er than the Ponys) sports coupe, but I think it would be overkill for Chevy with an already shrunken Camaro on the way in.

Right now, the Challenger is 8" longer than the Camaro and 10" longer than the new Mustang. Leave that be, keep giving it monster engines, and keep it as a drag/straight-line monster; alternately create a new small, RWD coupe/vert that's 30" shorter (as the FR-S/BRZ is), give it a couple tiger shark engines, and make the top trim an SRT6 rated around 400hp. Makes Dodge different and keeps the bigger, more profitable Challenger free from internal competition.
 
#13 ·
Are those sales numbers catastrophic? Or is that right on target? You might have to drill down a little deeper. Are the sales figures a result of the size of the market? Or is it because Chevy and Ford each have over 3,000 dealers and Subaru/Scion combined have a little over half that (approx 1600)? More points of sale usually = more sales. Is it the cars themselves, or is it because the pony cars have more engine options at a similar price point and are bigger?

Could Chevy/Dodge/Ford sell a car in that same market at those volumes and still be profitable? Or would their larger dealer networks make for more sales than what Scion/Subaru can muster? That's for the bean counters to decide, but it's not as simple as saying "that existing sales volume from two very small brands won't work" because there are lots of factors in play.
 
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#7 ·
for me the FRS is just too small for my taste. i am not a fan of small cars. i need a back seat, even if no people can fit, at least i can put my stuff on there for a road trip.

if the next camaro is on the alpha platform, it should be able to save a lot of weight. hopefully then it can be moved around by a turbo 4
 
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#9 ·
Uhhh nope!
 
#11 ·
This is not the first article I have seen that basically says that the FR-S/BRZ do not compete with the Camaro/Mustang because the FR-S/BRZ are cheaper.

I have talked price with dealers on all of these cars. Lowest you can get a base FR-S down to is $22-23k.

Dealers will do $16k on base 2014 Mustangs. Base 2014 Camaros are still more like $18k.

Smaller and lighter yes, more tossable yes, better FE yes, but the FR-S/BRZ are simply not a cheap deal for the affordable little sports cars that they ostensibly are. The base pony cars are, though. Due partially to economies of scale, I imagine. GM and Ford pump out a ton of these cars so I guess they don't need the margin so much. There is no room for a cheaper RWD sporty car under the Camaro.

I don't see Ford and Chevy coming up with and FR-S/BRZ competitor any time soon. The Mustang and Camaro are really closer to the japanese twins than a lot of people realize IMO. Particularly if the 6th gen comes with some weight loss and slightly tidier exterior dimensions.
 
#15 ·
Problem with the Twins is that for what you get, they are over priced. There is a market for entry level RWD, small sporty cars. I'd like to see it come to Chevy as a sedan, 2 door shooting brake and possible a 2 door ute. Starts at $20k or so. 4 Cyl only. If it had to be, a SLA would be acceptable. GM has been able to tune SLA to handle very well. Chevy's larger dealer network should help leverage better sales results that Subaru and Scion. Would also be crucial in global markets to provide volume.
 
#17 ·
I would like Dodge to bring back the HORNET hot Hatch from years ago and build it on the Miata/alfa chassis it wold sorta be like the Voloster done "right"
as for Chevy/ Ford I wonder how many FR-S buyers would consider a "stripper" Camaro/Mustang as outside of looks thay are low on redeeming value and do a good job of letting you know you bought the cheap one
 
#26 ·
The FR-S/BRZ aren't selling near as bad as this thread makes it seem.

But the reason they aren't selling better is because they still haven't released a higher performing variant. The base car is fun, but for anyone accustomed to a powerful car, there's just not enough speed to keep them content.

The problem for domestic brands in building such a car is that the target audience doesn't view them with much, if any, credibility when it comes to that market. So in essence, you'd be left with cars that handle better than their larger counterparts, but are shunned by typical domestic loyalists because they are no faster than similarly priced or cheaper larger cars in the same stable. This thread proves as much. People have said the FR-S is overpriced, that they don't want a go-kart, etc.

Truth is, the market for cars like these is very small and fickle, and while they may be capable of fielding a solid contender, it may not be in their best interests to do so. It'd be more realistic to have an SRT Dart, Cruze performance model, etc.
 
#28 ·
Concentrate on making the best Camaro, and keeping one version of it light and inexpensive to sort of compete with the BRz's.

Perhaps you can make a Cruze coupe. More folks across the snow belt would buy a Cruze coupe over a Chevy BRz. That Code concept in white was pretty snazzy and is unique vs. the Camaro.

If GM had tons of cash lying around, sure. But GM badly needs new Commercial vans, a mini van, more Cadillac products, and more crossovers overall.
 
#32 ·
Honestly if it wasn't for the Camaro, Corvette, and Chevy SS then Chevy would just be an American Toyota. Obviously there is no change of seeing a sporty Cruze for the US market for this generation. Though I wonder if they plan on offering more for the next generation?. At least offer a sporty Sonic (I am not just talking Sonic RS), I think a Sonic SS with AWD and the 1.6T engine would make for an interesting model.

Honestly though Chevy offers a good amount of performance cars (more then most brands). As much as I want to see Chevy make a FRS fighter or a Miata fighter (or hell both) we have a pretty big range of performance cars. The Toyota badge offers 0 Performance cars, you have to buy a Scion FRS and that amounts to 1 (and I only give Toyota that because at many dealers Toyota/Scion are sold side by side). Honda currently doesn't offer any performance cars (well 1 if you consider the Civic Si). Nissan is doing the best with the 370Z and Nissan GTR, so while yes I think that Chevy should produce such a vehicle I do think it could be worse. If you were a Toyota fan you would be comparing the FRS to the Camaro, Chevy SS sedan, and Corvette.

BTW if Chevy were to offer a FRS or Miata type car I would probably be one of the first in line to get one.
 
#38 ·
Good point!

A Code 130R-type vehicle has been a pipe dream ever since, well, the debut of the Code 130R three years ago. With the Camaro still selling so well, and in its base trim competing directly with the FR-S anyway, I'm not sure that Chevy really cares about pursuing this segment.

I guess a lot will depend on the new Camaro. If it moves up-market (let's say $27K base), then maybe there will be room below in which to slot a $22K 'little brother' car. And that's certainly possible. On the other hand, the fact that the Mustang has pretty much held the line on pricing leads me to believe that GM will likely follow suit.
 
#37 ·
This is a car that all the young enthusiasts begged for and swore they would be first in line for. The demographic that these cars are aimed at have proven that they are scared to death of RWD.

They have been a sales flop for the amount of attention and given to them by the media with the initial buildup.

What Chevy needs to do is follow all the variations of the Golf model.
Diesel
Electric
Standard Golf
GTI
GTI with Performance Pack (Big brakes, better suspension and real LSD)
Golf R 300hp AWD
3 and 5 door
 
#39 ·
The fact that people are bringing up base camaros and stangs shows most don't know the purpose of a compact RWD sports car.
 
#41 ·
Oh, don't assume that those of us talking about base Camaros 'don't know the purpose' of a small RWD sports car. I know that it'd be a fun car. I've been in the M235i, and it's awesome. I'd love to see GM playing in that segment, and I know how different it is than the pony car segment in terms of driving experience.

But from a BUSINESS standpoint, you can't ignore the pony car segment. Let's face it. By the time development costs are factored in, do you really think it'd cost GM much less to build a Code 130R-type car than a Camaro? And yet they would be forced to sell it for less, just as the BMW 2-series sells for ~15-20% less than the 4-series. But how low can they go and still turn a profit? 20K? I'm not sure they can profitably build a RWD coupe for that price. $23K? Maybe, but if the buyer can get a Camaro for the same money and have a lot more bang for his buck, how many would realistically choose the 130R? A few, of course, but I'm not thinking it would be a lot.
 
#42 ·
The emphasis today has changed to better optioned cars as standard, an insistance on good gas mileage
and a reasonable expectation of performance in the standard version. people in the $20K zone are not
going to get a $30K car but they expect similar value...
 
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