The death of the minivan (and Chrysler?)

[geozinger]

On topic: I have always been a fan of vans (having grown up in the 1970's and remember all of the van-in's and using them at my other jobs over the years) and have been a big fan of the Chrysler mini-vans since I first encountered them years ago.

Even though I don't have a need for one right now, I wouldn't mind having a current Grand Caravan. I rented one a few weeks ago for a long trip and it go apprx. 26 MPG, but I drove like Grandma. It was a brand new, less than 5,000 miles motor and I didn't want to beat on it too much. But that gas mileage is not too far off of my Maxx's freeway mileage. Remember, the 'Grand Can' has a LOT more interior volume and a bigger motor than the Maxx.

I wouldn't mind having one right now as my music career has heated up again, and it's way easier (and less time consuming) to stuff a partially assembled drum set into a minivan than it is to break it all down to fit into the Maxx.

When my kids were younger, we had a couple of Azteks (my wife didn't want something as dowdy as a minivan) and they were pretty decent vehicles. But honestly I was little jealous of a buddy of mine who had Grand Caravans during that time, because they were a better solution for hauling a family and soccer gear/camping equipment/pets/girl scout cookies/etc... If you can stand the looks, there's a lot of value in those things.

Off topic: This has been one of the weirdest threads I have ever followed on GMI. I had no idea that so many people would have to come to the defense of the lowly (or dowdy) minivan. On the other hand, I'm glad to see that a good idea does have it's defenders.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by 69Firebird400

Two very large differences.

Minivans generally get better gas mileage than SUVs that are comparably spacious (though crossovers are closing the gap, BOF SUVs aren't even close). And a minivan more or less cuts a midsize footprint, but has the interior volume of a full-sizer like a Suburban or Expedition EL.

People do not buy minivans for image reasons. They are literally about the most uncool vehicle you could drive. There is no faux toughness, an "I'm overcompensating for deficiencies elsewhere, so I drive a vehicle that can conquer the Rubicon trail even though I'll never, ever take it off road." All of the capability that most Jeeps have is at the expense of on-road comfort and interior volume/practicality.

goblue, do you have kids? If you do, great, but if you don't, then with all due respect you are unqualified from judging how easy or difficult it is to carry all of the crap that kids need in a sedan. A week at a beach house for my wife, me, and a five month old two years ago required:

- Pack-n-Play
- Stroller
- Suitcase of baby toys
- Suitcase of baby clothes
- Suitcase of parents' clothes (we shared one)
- Bath tub for baby (he was too small to use the adult-size tub)
- Cooler for baby food/formula

We literally folded every seat in our Pathfinder except for the three that had people in them, and still packed every inch front to back, top to bottom. Of the above list, the following would fit in the trunk of our Accord:

- Pack-n-Play
- Stroller

Yep, that's it. Everything else would have to be held on our laps, put on the seat next to an infant, or left at home.

Do you really think people want to be seen in a minivan rather than a wagon or SUV? For their size they are economical to operate, cheap to purchase, and easy to use. If we and all of our crap fit into a midsize sedan, we'd use that, but it's simply not practical to do.

My point was not that the genre's days were numbered, just that the June 08 figures aren't as good as they appear at first glance because they are compared to a weak prior year period. Nothing more, nothing less. Contrary to others' beliefs in this thread, I have no vested interest in Chrysler's vans failing or ToyHonda's succeeding, either.

We have 1 child, and I one of our vehicles is a small/midsize wagon. We have a large rooftop carrier that we put on for big trips. However, what I've noticed is we simply don't take as much as we thought we wanted, but it always works out in the end. One of the reasons why we'll never get a minivan, its simply not necessary. FWIW, going camping with the two of us in Yosemite requires much more than what you listed, and it worked out really well.

I guess what I'm saying is many times people haul more stuff than they need just because they can. And so what right? No big deal. Except it is - the vast majority of these vehicles are used as a daily driver for someone and its costing us our national security.

Its not just vehicles, its filling a McMansion with stuff simply because one has the space, then heating it, and not being able to afford it because natural gas went up. Cutting it so close that people go into debt to have Christmas and heat the house.

On another thought? What do I mean by afford. It means having 6 months of income in a short term savings account, saving $5K per kid per year for college, and putting about 15% into retirement per year, and no credit card debt. Ever. Thats why the country is in this mess, most of us are spending too much money. People who aren't in that situation need to purchase smaller vehicles and make do. Those that are in a good situation need to think about our national security and if they will use the capability frequently.