Crossovers Disappoint Detroit

[rsinsel]

Originally Posted by dav305z

I think GM and analysts alike underestimate the measure to which consumers are rejecting SUV's. Car buying has always been emotional. The same irrationality that once drove Americans to pass over perfectly functional sedans and wagons in favor of SUV's is now driving them to reject anything that looks remotely like a truck.

Small cars are "in" not because they are practical (which they are) or because they are economical (which they are). They're in because people think they're cool right now, and want to be seen in them.

Wrong, it is economical. Pure and simple. People buy what they can afford to.

[Ming]

Originally Posted by 88Fiero

Despite what mr ming says we are selling acadias and they seem to be the only truck that is selling. Suzuki = GM??

Good for you with the Acadias. I hope they don't impact your Enclave sales....or are you a single brand GMC dealer?

The Forenza Wagon is sold as a Chevy Optra in Canada and the Chevrolet Lacetti in Europe.

It's manufactured by GM Daewoo, and has a GM Holden engine from Down Under.

The upcoming Chevrolet Cruze will be engineered by many of the same folks in Korea, if I'm not mistaken.

Lastly, Suzuki has long been an alliance partner of GM's. Ever heard of the Tracker, or Metro? They've never threatened GM like it's so-called "partners" in NUMMI, Toyota. And GM used to own quite a bit of Suzuki stock.

Suzuki has similarly shared much with Daewoo over the years, so, you see - it's one big happy family. Or at least it was until GM sold much of its stock ownership of Suzuki -- now they have less than 5% if memory serves.

If GM had offered the Optra Wagon here, I would have bought it. Or a 4-cyl. Malibu Maxx. The HHR was an option, but the windows and visibility were impacted by the cute retro styling, the interior plastic seemed thick (bulging) and confining, and I guess the HHR/PT Cruiser styling hasn't grown on me, yet.

[dindak]

I am wishing for $4 gas again! Here in Canada gas is now almost $5 a gallon.

We have been living with $4 gas and SUV sales were steady. It's more the shock of $4 gas and a poor economy in my eyes.

[Jesda]

Originally Posted by Ming

I suppose if I had bought a 4-cyl. coupe convertible otherwise on a very similar platform my car would be "sporty and desireable".

Apples to oranges, and a silly comparison to make.

Sporty 4-cylinder convertibles like the Sky and Miata are luxury items, low to the ground and sharp as a razor. They have one purpose: pleasing the driver.

Your Suzuki is a poor example of what Americans should be moving to. A better example would be a Mini Clubman, or some fun-to-drive wagon variant of a small car. Think of the Ford Flex, but perhaps smaller with a turbo-four.

People want as much car as they can afford. People want as much of everything as they can afford. If you spend 10 minutes in an econ class, you'll understand the concept of scarcity. Many are suffering in this economy, but I'm not, so why would I bother getting into an underpowered shoebox if I don't have to?

If GM, BMW, Honda, or Ford offered an attractive box on wheels that was good on gas, I'd consider it. The Scion XB, for the record, is not attractive. Nissan should bring the Cube to the US.

Wagons the past. Spacious microvans are the future.

And the Malibu Maxx was practical, but made me want to gouge my eyes out.

[rsinsel]

Originally Posted by dindak

I am wishing for $4 gas again! Here in Canada gas is now almost $5 a gallon.

We have been living with $4 gas and SUV sales were steady. It's more the shock of $4 gas and a poor economy in my eyes.

Wow! Here in Texas it is down to 3.50 in some places.

[mpsrent]

"They're expensive vehicles at a time when there's a lot of economic uncertainty and distress," said Mark LaNeve, North American sales chief for GM.

That statement kind of says it all! Crossovers tend to be expensive while the general public tend not to require the space or towing capacity of a crossover. I believe we've just seen the tip of the iceberg as more and more people who really don't need the extra space of an SUV, truck or crossover seek more cost effective and fuel efficient options.

Depreciation on crossovers will be just as bad as depreciation on SUV's and trucks in future years. This is why I am hesitant to upgrade and will just keep running my trusty old Envoy for another year or so.

[Mcmflow]

Originally Posted by Ming

I always like to say -- well, it's as much "GM manufactured" as a Pontiac GTO, and has a Holden engine, too!:

Ming's New Daily Driver (It's a GM car, but...)

More shots: #2 Ming's New Daily Driver (It's a GM car, but...)

I must admit my obsession with GM trivia (where things are made, Holden and Daewoo stuff) got me thinking about it, then I took the plunge.

Oh, and I've always liked Suzuki. I'd have a WagonR if I could.

15,000 trouble free miles as of last week.

I have always been a fan of the wagon too. Most of them anyway. I do wish there was a few more choices. I like the Volvo wagons, but a little to much $$ for me. I loved the 93-97 (I think that's the right years) Accord Wagon...my favorite. The new VW Wagen is nice but I would like something a little less $$ for my daily commuter.....wife won't go near a wagon.

[kodos78]

Okay Ming, YOU don't like the HHR styling. We get it. Well, I think your car is pretty ugly. Worse, it is depressing . So there!

And GM has no problem selling HHRs, all of my local dealers are pretty much sold out of them. My SS has 260hp, gets 21/29 mpg and set a class record on the Nurburgring. It should be a textbook example of what GM can do if it wanted to sell a fun to drive wagon.

In fact, my dealer was stupefied as to why they are sold out. I just looked at him like he was crazy as he stood in front of a sea of Silverados and Tahoes.

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by Whitesky

You will continue to get the same dirty looks because there will not be a high demand for wagons. While I believe they should have 2 in their lineup (Chevy & Saturn), a wagon version of every car would be ridiculous.

That's the way it was in the 80's. Chevy had the Cavalier Wagon, Malibu wagon, Celebrity wagon, Caprice wagon, ditto for Buick, Pontiac, and Olds for their respective models.

[KingElvis]

I don't get the Enclave at all. It's nearly as heavy as a Tahoe and only gets moderatly better mpg - all at the price of giving away towing and off road ability.

What's the point? It's like taking a poser vehicle and taking away all the exotic aspects of it until it loses its poser value.

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by Ming

However, I think your perception shines some light on why GM's 4-cyl. station wagons dropped off just around the time their SUVs started ramping up. And why we didn't see a 4-cylinder Malibu Maxx. Because GM doesn't want its customers "settling for less" --- or rather, they'd like to get someone who only needs a (mythical) 4-cylinder Malibu Maxx into a more profitable car like a V6 Equinox, or a Trailblazer. Forget that fuel economy drops down dramatically. Profit is the name of the game, and your perception plays right into it.

Well said.

[steinravnik]

People just got more money taken away that could have been used to buy crossovers:

Morgan Stanley Said to Freeze Home-Equity Credit Withdrawals
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...gzI&refer=home

[vam29]

The biggest problem with the Buick Enclave costing sales is with distribution: Some dealers are sitting with several on their lots while I know of at least one that is sold out for weeks and doesn't even have one to show his customers. When the problem is resolved sales results should improve dramatically for this beautiful crossover!

[04bonnie]

Well, certainly not the Lambdas are dissappointing, why do they have a photo of the Outlook there? Maybe the Ford Edge, since it's basically a BIG car, not really a useful crossover, since it only seats 5. Any crossover that doesn't seat at least 7 is a waste, mind as well buy a car, or a small station wagon, for 5 seats. BUT, the Lambdas are HUGE sellers, and I don't see them dropping off anytime soon. We just got our Enclave, and it's great with the room, and it drives like a car....best of both worlds. Gas mileage is about the same as our Bonneville, so doesn't make any sense to have a car with a v6, but maybe a small car with a 4 cyl would make sense to save gas.

[Chaz_23]

This shouldn't be a surprise. No one wanted x-overs, no one was asking for them.

The Big 3 decided out of nowhere that America would just switch from minivans, mid-size SUVs and sedans into x-overs because...who knows. They always were and continue to be clueless. It's just another series of big thirsty cars that no one wants.