CR: Malibu/Fusion Tops Accord/Camry; GM Shows "Bright Spots" @ 42% Above Avg

[deltheking]

Originally Posted by srapps55

As someone who used to work on a proprietary quality survey for Ford, and has purchased JD Power while at Volkswagen, all of these studies have their flaws. The biggest issue isn't the sampling per se, its hows the data is analyzed. Historically, its been irrational to compare Buick owners to say BMW or VW owners, because their buyers are so radically different. Do you think a 65YO person with compromised vision and hearing will evaluate their vehicle with the same fervor as someone who is a 30YO performance junkie? Stripping out some of these anomolies reveals the truth when looking at this data, but we will never be able to do this.

That being said, the switch to foreign cars did not happen overnight - it took many years of Detroit producing crap before the major shift occurred. And, it will take many years of good quality products to get people back. The problem is that the Japanese cars are not suddenly going to fall apart, so there is little incentive to switch to American unless there is a major price advantage, a huge increase in patriotism, or some other major benefit. Then, you have the problem with the Koreans, who are making good products at good prices with long warranties. I like that the Americans are trying to "Euro" their car lineups, because getting a reliable inexpensive car that is fun to drive should be highly marketable (and something VW totally missed the boat on - if they had fixed their quality problems they would own this space now).

A very refreshing ,honest blunt post. The crux of the problem has been poor GM crap cars for decades. And they want to fix it in 2 or 3 years.Sorry , not happening..Sad,but true.

[ksr]

Originally Posted by deltheking

Dude, I dont know if you have access to CR or not. I do have. And the 08 Accord gets a solid black dot for brakes-that is, much below average. CR is the most accurate info out there. Very easy to criticize a company that takes no money for advertising.

The line of reasoning that says "CR takes no advertising money" and "CR is non-profit" and that this makes their results infallible is ridiculous.

Non-profit or not, they still need to make money and sell magazines This is their primary reason to exist.

Their sampling method have always been flawed. Mailing out questionaires and using whatever comes back without verifying anything about the car "owners" is not a valid statistical method.

The reason that they don't publish more numbers and details about their methods is because for business reasons - to keep selling magazines - they can't reveal the fact that there is little difference between the very best cars and the vast bulk of cars that they rate as around the industry average. Their data has little to no value in making a purchase decision because it the differences between most cars are statistically irrelevant, and if they publish too much data, their subscribers might eventually catch on and become former subscribers.

JD Powers sells it's services to companies. Those companies pay JDP for accurate results. If those results are proven inaccurate, JDP would be out of business.

[SwampFoxZ71]

Originally Posted by MM1281

Good press for Ford but the source is questionable. There, I said it and Im a Ford guy but not a hypocrite. CR needs to stick to testing toasters. Still, I wouldnt buy a Camcord if you gave it to me.

Ummm...if they gave you the Camcord then you wouldn't be buying it, so I can safely assume you would buy one for free...err...if they gave you one...

[staspeterson]

Originally Posted by Bokl

Good job ford. Now lets hear people say how CR is garbage and ignore reality like always.

CR IS garbage. And i would hope some ambitious ambulance chasing *******s would sue them on the basis of their totally indefensible statistical methods,that totally ignore reality. It would be delightful for someone other than the SMUG *******s at CR to take it in the rump once in a while.

[deltheking]

Originally Posted by ksr

The line of reasoning that says "CR takes no advertising money" and "CR is non-profit" and that this makes their results infallible is ridiculous.

Non-profit or not, they still need to make money and sell magazines This is their primary reason to exist.

Their sampling method have always been flawed. Mailing out questionaires and using whatever comes back without verifying anything about the car "owners" is not a valid statistical method.


JD Powers sells it's services to companies. Those companies pay JDP for accurate results. If those results are proven inaccurate, JDP would be out of business.

Well JD Powers id the biggest crap out there. No difference between brake dust and engine failure. No difference !! That`s ridiculous. Even their chief admits to this. Here`s the link to that interview:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32509285...onsumer_news//

And CR lists all it`s criteria,sampling data and ratings info.Please read the whole FAQ page and things should be clearer :

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...ity-faq_ov.htm

And CR has a bias towards Ford now !!! Ha ha !!

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by Ach

I agree (if anything, the added complexity and weight of AWD would detract from reliability) but the unfortunate implication of the news release is that those models were below average. Things like this make me question CR's credibility.

If you're interested in the real reason--and the FWDs were "below average":

Why CR recommends only the FWD Lambdas