CR: Malibu/Fusion Tops Accord/Camry; GM Shows "Bright Spots" @ 42% Above Avg

[megeebee]

I say congradulations. Credit where it's due. I'm very happy to see any domestic maker recognized like this. Ford should be pleased and proud.


.

[ARCANGEL]

Originally Posted by westtxsky

Is there a better way to determine how happy people are with their purchase? If I were a subscriber, I'd say my sky is fun to drive, but is quickly turning into a POS, and my wifes Aura has me wished we'd bought an Acccord instead. How is that for unbiased?

wow man sorry to hear about your troubles. Like I always say you have to do what is right for you and yours, if that means replacing those cars with what you deem fit then God Bless

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by yamahr1

Really?? Find it and answer the question, what percentage less reliable is a Chrysler 300 than a Toyota Avalon? And what's their statistical margin for error?

They can't tell you that.
People wouldn't be scared anymore once they find out how puny the difference really is.
And then they'd be done.

[dewey9315]

Originally Posted by Hitman1970

At least Mulally is bright enough to go find out what the rules of the game were before playing. I am not a CR fan but see the importance of these ratings to the appliance driver masses. Now when is Fritz, Lutz, or Sheppard heading to those testing grounds for a brief on the rules of the game?

Fritz has already had a sitdown with the staff from CR recently. Even if the CR reports are garbage from a stastical standpoint, lots of sheep take them to heart. GM might as well play the game.

[GM-Joe]

CR is Pure Crap! If you look at the list on autonews.com, it has Cadillac second to last, yet it is the exact opposite for JDPower.

[neshapop]

Ultimate Biased Reports? Yawn.

Who cares, really?

[chakis24]

funny how ford is the new darling of the auto industry and now theyre on top.

doesnt change anything about cr.

[Simon says]

Great job FORD!!

Originally Posted by neshapop

Ultimate Biased Reports? Yawn.

Who cares, really?

Only the millions of people who rely on CR for their car buying decisions

Originally Posted by megeebee

I say congradulations. Credit where it's due. I'm very happy to see any domestic maker recognized like this. Ford should be pleased and proud.

They are, believe me . . . they are.

[jvanleuvan]

Regardless of their newfound praise for the domestics I will still call CR garbage.

1) They sample only their own readers
-This taints the sample pool, and would never be allowed in a real statistcal survey; This years survey group is already influenced by last years "results" which, as the magazine would hope, influenced them greatly in their purchase decisions. (this cycle continues over and over...)

2) They do not release their actual statistics as well as what their margin of error is.
-Would you trust a baseball game that said Team#1 won by "a Lot" with out seeing an actual score?

3) Weird anomalies
-The AWD Enclave is more reliable than the 2wd? How? Whats Different? Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they use the same mechanicals (same engine/trans). There are countless others that would have us believe that the engine choice affects interior fit/finish.

4) No Info about their methodogy?
-Do they weight probelms based on severity? Does a loose screw count less that a blown motor? or the same (See #3). Should point out that on their survey form Consumer Reports never defines "serious", but asks about "serious" problems

5) They lump Different Engines/Transmission Pairings together
-Though they have Improved on this They used to, For example lump the Carava/Grand Caravan together, which have considerable different Standard equipment/Engine choices.

6) Doesn't take into consideration Maintenance.
-A timing belt that brakes at 150K (That was supposed to be repalced at 90K) is reported as a problem, while one that was replaced during rutine maintenance would not.

7) Statistically Low response rate (Based on subscription rate)
-People who respond are statistically diferrent that those who don't I.E. people Having problems with a product are more likly to respond (to "Complain" of sorts)

8) Apperant Bias in their reviews
-October 4, 2004 - Acura TSX vs Volvo s40.
They complaind that the Volvo had "Tight" rear leg room, Yet objectivly, the Volvo has the same mesured rear legroom as the TSX
The Volvo only gets "acceptable" Milage while the TSX gets "Good" Milage While Objectivly they get the EXACT same mialge except the volvo uses regular comapred to tthe TSX's Premium

[mrgto]

Originally Posted by westtxsky

Is there a better way to determine how happy people are with their purchase? If I were a subscriber, I'd say my sky is fun to drive, but is quickly turning into a POS, and my wifes Aura has me wished we'd bought an Acccord instead. How is that for unbiased?

Because the sample size is too small.

[westtxsky]

Oh and my mom bought her Altima about 3 months before we bought my wifes Aura. The Altima has aged MUCH better than our Aura. It really isn't even close. My sky is almost to the point where I am embarrassed to let somebody ride in it. Imagine that, a one year old, $33,000 car that I am embarrassed of. Find that from the makers that CR "favors:

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by jvanleuvan

Regardless of their newfound praise for the domestics I will still call CR garbage.

1) They sample only their own readers
-This taints the sample pool, and would never be allowed in a real statistcal survey; This years survey group is already influenced by last years "results" which, as the magazine would hope, influenced them greatly in their purchase decisions. (this cycle continues over and over...)

2) They do not release their actual statistics as well as what their margin of error is.
-Would you trust a baseball game that said Team#1 won by "a Lot" with out seeing an actual score?

3) Weird anomalies
-The AWD Enclave is more reliable than the 2wd? How? Whats Different? Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they use the same mechanicals (same engine/trans). There are countless others that would have us believe that the engine choice affects interior fit/finish.

4) No Info about their methodogy?
-Do they weight probelms based on severity? Does a loose screw count less that a blown motor? or the same (See #3). Should point out that on their survey form Consumer Reports never defines "serious", but asks about "serious" problems

5) They lump Different Engines/Transmission Pairings together
-Though they have Improved on this They used to, For example lump the Carava/Grand Caravan together, which have considerable different Standard equipment/Engine choices.

6) Doesn't take into consideration Maintenance.
-A timing belt that brakes at 150K (That was supposed to be repalced at 90K) is reported as a problem, while one that was replaced during rutine maintenance would not.

7) Statistically Low response rate (Based on subscription rate)
-People who respond are statistically diferrent that those who don't I.E. people Having problems with a product are more likly to respond (to "Complain" of sorts)

8) Apperant Bias in their reviews
-October 4, 2004 - Acura TSX vs Volvo s40.
They complaind that the Volvo had "Tight" rear leg room, Yet objectivly, the Volvo has the same mesured rear legroom as the TSX
The Volvo only gets "acceptable" Milage while the TSX gets "Good" Milage While Objectivly they get the EXACT same mialge except the volvo uses regular comapred to tthe TSX's Premium

Well done! Great post. Let's see the CR apologists try to tear that up (cuz you know it's coming.....they live for this...).

[member12]

meh

I don't trust CR, but millions of Americans do....so it's key to shine in their test and surveys.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by westtxsky

Oh and my mom bought her Altima about 3 months before we bought my wifes Aura. The Altima has aged MUCH better than our Aura. It really isn't even close. My sky is almost to the point where I am embarrassed to let somebody ride in it. Imagine that, a one year old, $33,000 car that I am embarrassed of. Find that from the makers that CR "favors:

For evey post like this there is one where the owner is still ecstatic with his/her Sky or Aura and how someone they know absolutely hates their P.O.S. Altima. It's a crapshoot. That is why I don't let either type of post sway my decision, nor would I trust a magazine full of articles like them.

[westtxsky]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

For evey post like this there is one where the owner is still ecstatic with his/her Sky or Aura and how someone they know absolutely hates their P.O.S. Altima. It's a crapshoot. That is why I don't let either type of post sway my decision, nor would I trust a magazine full of articles like them.

I call BS. The problems I've had with my sky are typical. Virtually everybody on the sky forum has had the exact same problems I've had. Some downplay the issues, because it really is a cool car with great performance, but it has several issues. I know several people with 350Z's (the car I chose the Sky over), and none have had the issues I've had. The Aura is actually a pretty decent car. Just the interior hasn't aged as well as I'd like compared to the cars from Honda, Toyota, and Nissan.

Also, there is no way to get rid of either car since the depreciation on them renders them almost worthless.