CR Findings Show Trouble For CTS; Lambdas; 25% of GM Vehicles "Well Below Average"

[CompG_Dude]

This is not surprising to me.

I've owned a 2008 CTS since January of this year.

I think the design and engineering that went into it were excellent. On paper, in commercials, and in the showroom it looks like the best thing since sliced bread.

The quality is something else... I've had it to the dealer several times for a myriad of warranty issues: center speaker in the dashboard popping loose, door lock not unlocking all the way, rattle from rear window area, excessive engine noise, and sunroof not closing properly. Since my last visit, I've identified another rattle in the rear window area, the sunroof is starting to act up again, and now the radio is acting up too (features randomly stop working, sometimes radio won't turn on).

I've owned six GM cars in the past two decades and consider myself very brand loyal. Five of those cars were Pontiacs. When I bought my Cadillac, the one biggest thing that I was looking forward to was a rattle-free driving experience. Every Pontiac I owned started to rattle after about a year or so. So I got my CTS, and no later than two months after it starts to rattle.

I am a true GM fan... I only buy GM cars. I own GM stock. My parents and brother buy GM cars. When I look to replace my CTS, my first stop will be a GM dealership of some sort. However, given the quality issues so far (after nine months of ownership), I will certainly give more consideration to alternatives. That is, if GM is even still around when I look to replace my CTS...

[zete]

I wonder why the Lambdas scored so low. We've had ours more than a year and it's been nothing but a load of problems :

• 1 oil change
• 1 recall (heated windshield washer)

I mean. If GM keeps making me go to the dealer once a year, I'll be super irate. I was expecting to not see them for the full 4 years of the warranty!

And, yeah, I know my own experience is meaningless, but others I've met with Lambdas have had no problems as well. So why the low score?

[sigma]

Originally Posted by CompG_Dude

This is not surprising to me.

I've owned a 2008 CTS since January of this year.

I think the design and engineering that went into it were excellent. On paper, in commercials, and in the showroom it looks like the best thing since sliced bread.

The quality is something else... I've had it to the dealer several times for a myriad of warranty issues: center speaker in the dashboard popping loose, door lock not unlocking all the way, rattle from rear window area, excessive engine noise, and sunroof not closing properly. Since my last visit, I've identified another rattle in the rear window area, the sunroof is starting to act up again, and now the radio is acting up too (features randomly stop working, sometimes radio won't turn on).

I've owned six GM cars in the past two decades and consider myself very brand loyal. Five of those cars were Pontiacs. When I bought my Cadillac, the one biggest thing that I was looking forward to was a rattle-free driving experience. Every Pontiac I owned started to rattle after about a year or so. So I got my CTS, and no later than two months after it starts to rattle.

I am a true GM fan... I only buy GM cars. I own GM stock. My parents and brother buy GM cars. When I look to replace my CTS, my first stop will be a GM dealership of some sort. However, given the quality issues so far (after nine months of ownership), I will certainly give more consideration to alternatives. That is, if GM is even still around when I look to replace my CTS...

Look at lemon law requirements in your state. Depending on what the requirements are for your state, you might have a case. It's a Cadillac, not a Geo, things like this shouldn't be happening.

[2003SCT]

Regardless of what you think of the findings, I think the best are the polar opposites of Mercedes-Benz and Hyundai/Kia.

The majority of Mercedes-Benz vehicles did poorly and almost all of the Korean models did very well. So to take this test literally means just that. If you want a reliable car, buy a Hyundai. If you wanna have problems, buy a Mercedes. How many people will say THAT to a crowd of people?


CHRIS

[Olds88]

Originally Posted by CompG_Dude

This is not surprising to me.

I've owned a 2008 CTS since January of this year.

I think the design and engineering that went into it were excellent. On paper, in commercials, and in the showroom it looks like the best thing since sliced bread.

The quality is something else... I've had it to the dealer several times for a myriad of warranty issues: center speaker in the dashboard popping loose, door lock not unlocking all the way, rattle from rear window area, excessive engine noise, and sunroof not closing properly. Since my last visit, I've identified another rattle in the rear window area, the sunroof is starting to act up again, and now the radio is acting up too (features randomly stop working, sometimes radio won't turn on).

I've owned six GM cars in the past two decades and consider myself very brand loyal. Five of those cars were Pontiacs. When I bought my Cadillac, the one biggest thing that I was looking forward to was a rattle-free driving experience. Every Pontiac I owned started to rattle after about a year or so. So I got my CTS, and no later than two months after it starts to rattle.

I am a true GM fan... I only buy GM cars. I own GM stock. My parents and brother buy GM cars. When I look to replace my CTS, my first stop will be a GM dealership of some sort. However, given the quality issues so far (after nine months of ownership), I will certainly give more consideration to alternatives. That is, if GM is even still around when I look to replace my CTS...

I second that you might want to check lemon law. My Caprice still doesn't rattle and its 17 years old. In nearly 2 years my Avalanche doesn't rattle either.

Originally Posted by zete

I wonder why the Lambdas scored so low. We've had ours more than a year and it's been nothing but a load of problems :

• 1 oil change
• 1 recall (heated windshield washer)

I mean. If GM keeps making me go to the dealer once a year, I'll be super irate. I was expecting to not see them for the full 4 years of the warranty!

And, yeah, I know my own experience is meaningless, but others I've met with Lambdas have had no problems as well. So why the low score?

Uh you may want to bring your vehicle in for an oil change a bit more often. 3 months or 3,000 miles (some people go 5k on synthetic, but I don't), whichever comes first. 4 times a year is a bare minimum. Leaving the oil in for a whole year is inviting disaster.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by CompG_Dude

This is not surprising to me.

I've owned a 2008 CTS since January of this year.

I think the design and engineering that went into it were excellent. On paper, in commercials, and in the showroom it looks like the best thing since sliced bread.

The quality is something else... I've had it to the dealer several times for a myriad of warranty issues: center speaker in the dashboard popping loose, door lock not unlocking all the way, rattle from rear window area, excessive engine noise, and sunroof not closing properly. Since my last visit, I've identified another rattle in the rear window area, the sunroof is starting to act up again, and now the radio is acting up too (features randomly stop working, sometimes radio won't turn on).

I've owned six GM cars in the past two decades and consider myself very brand loyal. Five of those cars were Pontiacs. When I bought my Cadillac, the one biggest thing that I was looking forward to was a rattle-free driving experience. Every Pontiac I owned started to rattle after about a year or so. So I got my CTS, and no later than two months after it starts to rattle.

I am a true GM fan... I only buy GM cars. I own GM stock. My parents and brother buy GM cars. When I look to replace my CTS, my first stop will be a GM dealership of some sort. However, given the quality issues so far (after nine months of ownership), I will certainly give more consideration to alternatives. That is, if GM is even still around when I look to replace my CTS...

Hmmm, I'm dying to replace my present GM vehicle with a CTS Coupe next fall; talk about delayed gratification. Your post-admittedly an "N" of one-gives me pause.

I've paid some attention to various quality studies before purchasing my GM vehicles, and my experience matches the findings of those studies. The GM vehicles I've chosen seem to perform reasonably well in quality studies, as have my GM cars. I'm a little troubled that CR is suggesting the CTS is merely average with respect to quality, and it's more troubling that you as a CTS owner can vouch for their findings. Your experience might even be worse!

I'm not sure what it's worth, CompG_Dude, but I do hope you are able to solve the quality snafus with your vehicle, be it through the shop or through a provision of your state's lemon law. Paying that kind of money for a car should merit a relatively trouble-free experience, especially since the car's less than one year old. I hope it works out for you.

[neshapop]

Originally Posted by wescoent

My prediction for a majority of the reactions to my post:

"You appear to be backing up CR, so you MUST work for Toyota."

I find CR more accurate (yet still biased) than finance and market "experts/analysts" who a few months ago predicted oil $200 and now their crystal ball says $30 is just around the corner.

E.g. my Buick Allure/Lacrosse is recommended, with pathetic 56 points, above average reliability and 18 mpg combined fuel consumption. Which one of these four statements is true according to their "analysis"?

[red_rider]

Originally Posted by nsap

For those of you dismissing this because of CR, well do some research...they are not lying. I have read many reports of camshafts going out of the Lambdas and trim pieces falling off the CTS....we have a quality problem at GM, and it needs addressed NOW.

I'll take an updated LS4 instead then plzkthx

[mjd1001]

Originally Posted by Olds88

I dont' see how Avalanche doesn't have the highest rating they offer. I've had mine for about a year and a half now and with 48k on the odometer I haven't had a single problem. Nothing, nada, zip. Nothing but oil changes, washer fluid, wash/wax, and other routine stuff. So far the vehicle's reliability has been flawless.

I see how. While not a total lemon, My sister and Brother-in-Law bought a new 2008 Avalance, and they have had problems with the wiper motor, something in the suspension (it made a grinding noise when turning) and the vehicle needed an alignment only a month or two after they purchased it.

As far as other vehicles, we bought a new 2009 Malibu, have almsot 3,000 miles on it, and it is perfect so far...not even a single rattle. Our 2008 Vue, however, is a total, utter disaster. Over 10 problems (I have documented on other threads so far), NUMEROUS trips to the dealer service department, and it STILL isn't fixed. Bottom line is....becasue our Malibu is perfect doesn't mean all are...and because OUR Vue is a lemon doesn't mean all our....you can't judge the quality of a vehicle overall by the experience one or two people have....the benefit of Consumer reports is you get a larger sample to draw conclusions on than just a few owners we know.

[zete]

Originally Posted by Olds88

I second that you might want to check lemon law. My Caprice still doesn't rattle and its 17 years old. In nearly 2 years my Avalanche doesn't rattle either.



Uh you may want to bring your vehicle in for an oil change a bit more often. 3 months or 3,000 miles (some people go 5k on synthetic, but I don't), whichever comes first. 4 times a year is a bare minimum. Leaving the oil in for a whole year is inviting disaster.

No. When the car tells me to change the oil I go in, just like the manual says. That's why GM put in that oil monitor. In my last two cars with synthetic -- the CTS and now the Enclave -- that's usually meant oil changes somewhere between 10,000 - 15,000 kms. Why would I change it more frequently than GM wants me to change it? I'm not stupid.

And that "3k" thing is just a scam. Do what the automaker recommends.

The Enclave is > 1 year old and no rattles. My prior CTS was 4 years old when I handed it back, no rattles. If I had rattles in either the Enclave or the CTS I'd have taken it back immediately.

Of course, with the Enclave I hear every noise in the car. Sunglasses rattling in the dash, coins in the middle compartment, crap the kids left in the back. Argh. I can't believe I'm complaining about the Enclave being TOO quiet, but sometimes it is. It makes you turn the radio on just so you don't hear those items making noise. I literally heard a snap bouncing off its closing portion the other day. I thought I had a rattle but it was just a snap on a sunglasses case! Unbelievably quiet.

[vanshmack]

Our early 2007 Tahoe (purchased in March 2006) has 72,000 miles on it. It went back to the dealer the first week with a bad oil pressure sender. It's never been back there again for a repair. It's still very tight with no squeeks or rattles. Ours is 4WD, too.

I guess sometimes you get a godo one, and sometimes you get a clunker. I've owned 27 GM cars in my lifetime, and only one was a complete piece of cr@p and that was a used '95 Olds Aurora. I owned that car for almost two years and it spent 4 months of that time in service, yet the service guys would always tell me how "well built" the Aurora is/was.

You just never know!

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by nsap

For those of you dismissing this because of CR, well do some research...they are not lying. I have read many reports of camshafts going out of the Lambdas and trim pieces falling off the CTS....we have a quality problem at GM, and it needs addressed NOW.

Camshafts in the 3.6? This is only a Lambda problem right? I mean, the engine is used in Sigma, Epsilon, and soon everywhere, the last thing GM needs is anything less than the "perceived reliability" that came with a good old 3.8.

And the CTS? Thats a tough market to have trim pieces falling off in, I know if I spent that much on a car, I wouldn't be happy.

[Buick Riviera]

Now this is the first time I've read that these Lambda crossover's and these Cadillac CTS sedan getting a bad reliability report. All these other reports were good on reliability, this the first one.

[zete]

The problem with CR and most of these other "quality" reports is that they're fairly meaningless today. What we need to see is a progression of quality from prior years so as to realize how good cars are in general today.

Furthermore, these types of surveys tend to be self selecting. If you don't expect much from a car, you're less critical, if you expect so much more, the opposite is true.

I'd also like the complaints to be sorted by seriousness. Rattles are one thing, annoying but not serious. Engine problems are serious and annoying. They shouldn't count equivalently, as they do in some surveys. At least CR typically splits out problems by type: electrical, engine, AC, etc.

But what I've found is that today you can get a decent vehicle from anyone. It's amazing that the average today is better than what Lexus was doing 10 years ago. I don't think THAT fact is telegraphed to consumers sufficiently frequently. It needs to be. Consumers should know that type of fact.

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by A Bum In A Bus

Consumer Reports, I have ZERO faith in their findings. For many years it has been shown owners of Japanese products respond to these test at a higher level than do American auto owners. Also there is a placebo effect from many foreign car owners, they believe their cars are better whether they are or not. Much of that can be blamed on an American media that constantly tells domestic owners their products are inferior.

C

I agree. Well this could be said for a few different articles that I've read as well, but in the Pontiac G8 V6, the engine is noted as coarse. I'm not sure if its just coarse when compared to the 6.0 V8, or it just is. The Cadillac CTS 3.6 DI is a completely different story. Does direct injection make an engine sound that different? Or do different vehicles have a different effect on engine noise? Because I also heard that the engine does not sound that good in the Lambda's either. And they would all leave you to believe that every car I listed had a completely different engine, and while they are marginally different, its the same architecture.