CR Findings Show Trouble For CTS; Lambdas; 25% of GM Vehicles "Well Below Average"

[A Bum In A Bus]

Consumer Reports, I have ZERO faith in their findings. For many years it has been shown owners of Japanese products respond to these test at a higher level than do American auto owners. Also there is a placebo effect from many foreign car owners, they believe their cars are better whether they are or not. Much of that can be blamed on an American media that constantly tells domestic owners their products are inferior.

Consumer Reports and their findings are as useless as tits on a bore hog......remember they were telling us Toyota was the greatest thing on the planet when Toyota was actually hiding their inferiority with in house repairs instead of published recalls.

Consumer Reports is good for one thing....................excuse me, I have to see a man about a dog.

[oct1]

We have had our Acadia since February 2007 so one of the first off the line and we have also had zero problems. Nothing. So I am not sure the latest ones coming out of the factory can be any worse. Could it be a methodology problem?

[dindak]

CTS problems are not good, GM needs that car to be perfect.

Good news on the Malibu though! We love ours, very solid.

[goatgary]

Originally Posted by SkiD666

Consumer Reports is a year out of date, True Delta shows that while the Lambda's and CTS "quality" out of the gate was average, the 2nd year of production had a better showing.

Of course CR's results will be reported as "current" for the next 12 months.

You are absolutely correct. This is dated "information". On the other hand, what happened to the idea of "get it right the fiirst time?"

[sigma]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Here's my prediction for the majority of posts on this thread:

"CR's findings do not match my own pre-concieved opinions on how things are, so they must be biased".

If there weren't serious problems with CR's methodology (which there are) I would agree with your post. To say that Consumer Reports is an accurate representation of quality of a vehicle would be to accept a flawed premise, investigated in a flawed manner, which of course generates flawed results. Unless you really believe that a Rio is screwed together better than a CTS or MKS.

[nsap]

For those of you dismissing this because of CR, well do some research...they are not lying. I have read many reports of camshafts going out of the Lambdas and trim pieces falling off the CTS....we have a quality problem at GM, and it needs addressed NOW.

[sigma]

Originally Posted by nsap

For those of you dismissing this because of CR, well do some research...they are not lying. I have read many reports of camshafts going out of the Lambdas and trim pieces falling off the CTS....we have a quality problem at GM, and it needs addressed NOW.

Camshafts?! Oh, @#$%. Earth to RenCen! Doesn't change the fact that there are significant problems with the CR survey, and that CR's methodology is so useless, it wouldn't even illustrate a problem such as this.

[Pedal 2 Metal]

Originally Posted by GMusa

I dont put much into these reports. I mean really all vehicles today are pretty much equal in quality give or take a several.

Exactly. "Better than average" is still going to be about the same as anything else. CR is irrelevant.

[Chaz_23]

I'm not surprised. Not so much because it's CR, but by how GM management has handled the issue of quality. They sort of swept it under the rug, ignored it, changed the topic. For example, Lutz's answer on 'the case for GM' video. He makes the valuable distinction between quality as absence of problems and quality as happiness/attention to detail. He then ignores quality as absence of problems and focuses on shiny paint. Typical GM, typical American snake oil salesman. So GM is not so much going to worry about whether cars break down and fall apart, but rather on them looking good on the dealers lot. He doesn't even address serious issues in happiness/attention to detail but superficial ones. The easy and cheap solution that doesn't address the problem. I do believe GM has improved to some extent; I don't think rotors warp every 10k miles on all GM cars as they used to. But assembly is still shoddy, and long-term reliability is questionable. Ultimately, GM doesn't care about quality, long-term customer satisfaction, creating customers loyalty. Americans simply do not get those concepts. They want to make a quick buck, put their cars together cheaply and with cheap materials, which is precisely a recipe for poor quality.

[prototype66]

When will people stop listening to the slanted opinion to the "Subscribers" of this rag. very few CR people even consider American brands. Pure rubbish.

[prototype66]

Originally Posted by Chaz_23

I'm not surprised. Not so much because it's CR, but by how GM management has handled the issue of quality. They sort of swept it under the rug, ignored it, changed the topic. For example, Lutz's answer on 'the case for GM' video. He makes the valuable distinction between quality as absence of problems and quality as happiness/attention to detail. He then ignores quality as absence of problems and focuses on shiny paint. Typical GM, typical American snake oil salesman. So GM is not so much going to worry about whether cars break down and fall apart, but rather on them looking good on the dealers lot. He doesn't even address serious issues in happiness/attention to detail but superficial ones. The easy and cheap solution that doesn't address the problem. I do believe GM has improved to some extent; I don't think rotors warp every 10k miles on all GM cars as they used to. But assembly is still shoddy, and long-term reliability is questionable. Ultimately, GM doesn't care about quality, long-term customer satisfaction, creating customers loyalty. Americans simply do not get those concepts. They want to make a quick buck, put their cars together cheaply and with cheap materials, which is precisely a recipe for poor quality.

Your way off base! Totally disagree with you.05 Venture bought new...zero problems....zero repairs
08 Malibo 28k miles.....zero problems....zero repairs. Your full of it and need to get a clue.

[Rocket 88]

In an unrelated story a sever thunderstorm has developed over the Ren Center. GM executives are suffering a high rate of electrocution whenever they venture outside the building.

China announces that all partnerships with foreign car manufacturers are null and void and Buick is now the property of the People's Republic.

In Germany, Opel's lightning bolt insingia is found to have been designed my high ranking officials of the Waffen -SS. Horrified nationals refuse to buy Opel products for fear of being termed Nazis. Resale values plummet.

To save money Rick Wagoneer has stated GM-Daewoo would design all future products from Cadillac to Cheverolet.

In a last ditch effort to save the company, Bob Lutz has decided to transfrom Saturn into the American BMW. All products will be cancelled except the OUTLOOK which will become renamed the Saturn X5 and be given a split grill.

An Asian supplier announced today that melamine was used in the production of interior parts sold by Pontiac and that these cars have been found to cause cancer in labratory rats....

Magnetic fields caused by the Cadillac Crest have been causing sexual disfunction in men according to a class action lawsuit filed today....

GMAC now requires a 90% initial payment on all vehicles and will only finance 10% of the vehicle. The minimum credit score was raised to 750, you have to be able to prove you have no other debts, such as credit cards or a mortgage.

SEE, IT COULD BE WORSE.

[osv_alero]

Originally Posted by member12

0 problems here after 24,000 miles.

I had a squeaky brake but it's normal for this weather.

I don't buy this survey, but many people put a lot o faith into it. GM needs to figure out how to do better here.

Have more GM fans vs GM haters subscribe to the publication.

If you have ever taken statistics in college you know that the way they collect their data makes their results untrustworthy. The information is not obtained from a large enough cross section of people and most of their subscribers are going to be biased towards the products the magazine has told them to purchase.

I'm not saying that GM should show perfect scores or that toyota should have all negative scores. I am saying the data should not be trusted as the collection of data is done in a way that would make it unreliable.

[Olds88]

Originally Posted by Chaz_23

I'm not surprised. Not so much because it's CR, but by how GM management has handled the issue of quality. They sort of swept it under the rug, ignored it, changed the topic. For example, Lutz's answer on 'the case for GM' video. He makes the valuable distinction between quality as absence of problems and quality as happiness/attention to detail. He then ignores quality as absence of problems and focuses on shiny paint. Typical GM, typical American snake oil salesman. So GM is not so much going to worry about whether cars break down and fall apart, but rather on them looking good on the dealers lot. He doesn't even address serious issues in happiness/attention to detail but superficial ones. The easy and cheap solution that doesn't address the problem. I do believe GM has improved to some extent; I don't think rotors warp every 10k miles on all GM cars as they used to. But assembly is still shoddy, and long-term reliability is questionable. Ultimately, GM doesn't care about quality, long-term customer satisfaction, creating customers loyalty. Americans simply do not get those concepts. They want to make a quick buck, put their cars together cheaply and with cheap materials, which is precisely a recipe for poor quality.

If you're ever in the Chicagoland area stop by sometime. I'd like to take you for a ride in my 175,000 miles 91 Caprice that doesn't have a single rattle, is still extremely quiet, runs smooth, etc. There is minimal rust on the bottom quarter of the fender skirts, but what do you expect with a 17 1/2 year old car daily driven in the winter? I read about inferior domestics, CR ratings, etc then I go outside and step into my wagon and experience the exact opposite. When owners of Camcords, Bimmers, etc sit in my wagon I get complimented on how quiet, roomy and nice riding it is. They are legitimately shocked that this old American wagon is as nice as it is. I get similar reactions to my truck. My truck has 48k on it and the rotors are just fine. They've actually lasted longer than I expected them to considering they've been subject to towing duty. The only quality problem I've had with an American car was my 92 Mercury. I bought it used with 78k on it and at 85k the 4.6L started burning oil. The 305 in my Caprice still doesn't burn any oil at 175k. The experience with my Caprice has erased any long term doubt for me in regards to the reliability of a GM product. I fully expect to get 200k out of my truck with no major problems. I'm only 25k away from getting that out of a GM from their "dark age".

[Olds88]

Originally Posted by osv_alero

Have more GM fans vs GM haters subscribe to the publication.

If you have ever taken statistics in college you know that the way they collect their data makes their results untrustworthy. The information is not obtained from a large enough cross section of people and most of their subscribers are going to be biased towards the products the magazine has told them to purchase.

I'm not saying that GM should show perfect scores or that toyota should have all negative scores. I am saying the data should not be trusted as the collection of data is done in a way that would make it unreliable.

Their sample sizes are also inadequate.

You want real reliability information? BS with the mechanics at a dealer. You'll quickly learn what common problems are, etc.