Citigroup Downgrades GM to Hold from Buy

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Correct - for the entire industry not just GM.

There are currently more effects like that, and there is going to be more fall out as we go along.

Not just from the oil - but from all the other as well.

There is a certain amount of damage thats now in the pipe and can't be avoided - even if and when 'restoration' ( oil prices ) occurs.

yes but our competitors can absorb the fallout whereas GM is on it's last legs financially. soon we will be mortgaging the remaining assets we have and it's not very much having already pledged plants and even equipment. there isn't a lot Red Ink Rick hasn't collateralized.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by steverino

In the 4th qtr Citigroup was downgraded from a buy to sell by 4 analysts (who were probably from Bear Stearns)

Its interesting who says what ( negatively ) about GM stock and then how it goes for them just a bit later.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by Buickman

yes but our competitors can absorb the fallout whereas GM is on it's last legs financially. soon we will be mortgaging the remaing assets we have and it's not very much having already pledged plants and even equipment. there isn't a lot Red Ink Rick hasn't collateralized.

Some of our competitors - right now for sure.

Others - nope - not really in a better position - or not enough too matter with big wind and waves.

That can change - quickly.

Still, I do share your concern in this regard.

Last legs ? I don't think so.

There are out of the box options available.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by JVal14

Let's not forget, CitiGroup stock has tanked 62% since the beginning of 2007 because they did not have the foresight to see the real estate crash coming. Maybe they're not the all-power seers of economic future that they make themselves out to be.

Which suggests GM is at least a usable amount ahead of their own performance as well.

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by Buickman

yes but our competitors can absorb the fallout whereas GM is on it's last legs financially. soon we will be mortgaging the remaining assets we have and it's not very much having already pledged plants and even equipment. there isn't a lot Red Ink Rick hasn't collateralized.

Buickman's got a good point. This is definitely a down market not seen in a while, and GM is pretty weak financially. If you pit Toyota with their hoards of cash against GM, Toyota's got a clear advantage. I'm rooting for GM, and things are definitely improving for them product wise, but I'm afraid it may be too late. If they can get the Volt to market as promised, that may be the last hope. Time will tell.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by steinravnik

Buickman's got a good point. This is definitely a down market not seen in a while, and GM is pretty weak financially. If you pit Toyota with their hoards of cash against GM, Toyota's got a clear advantage. I'm rooting for GM, and things are definitely improving for them product wise, but I'm afraid it may be too late. If they can get the Volt to market as promised, that may be the last hope. Time will tell.

as we have seen over the years, it's one thing after another at GM, one excuse and reason after another. how many failings do we have to continue to endure before RIR is shown the door. isn't it funny how it is NEVER the fault of management, and I use that term loosely?

IMO it is the fault of disastrous marketing, mistreatment of employees, retirees, dealers, and customers. GM just doesn't have a clue about retail automotive, which just happens to be the business we're in.

they claim selling assets allows them to focus on core operations. I say they do it to enrich the banks who populate the Board of Bystanders. RIR & CO truly don't have the first clue about how to sell cars. they throw money at problems and attempt to buy deals thru giveaways. the day of reckoning is quickly approaching as the well runs dry.

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by Buickman

as we have seen over the years, it's one thing after another at GM, one excuse and reason after another. how many failings do we have to continue to endure before RIR is shown the door. isn't it funny how it is NEVER the fault of management, and I use that term loosely?

IMO it is the fault of disastrous marketing, mistreatment of employees, retirees, dealers, and customers. GM just doesn't have a clue about retail automotive, which just happens to be the business we're in.

they claim selling assets allows them to focus on core operations. I say they do it to enrich the banks who populate the Board of Bystanders. RIR & CO truly don't have the first clue about how to sell cars. they throw money at problems and attempt to buy deals thru giveaways. the day of reckoning is quickly approaching as the well runs dry.

I don't think it's fair to completely blame Wagoner. Sure, he's made some mistakes, but so have his predecesors. It takes decades of mismanagement to take a company as powerful as GM was in the 1960's and reduce them to what we have today.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by steinravnik

I don't think it's fair to completely blame Wagoner. Sure, he's made some mistakes, but so have his predecesors. It takes decades of mismanagement to take a company as powerful as GM was in the 1960's and reduce them to what we have today.

well if we don't hold Red Ink Rick responsible and accountable, who do we? they say the captain goes down with the ship. I say it's time to replace the captain before the ships actually sinks!

A IS A & ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by steinravnik

I don't think it's fair to completely blame Wagoner. Sure, he's made some mistakes, but so have his predecesors. It takes decades of mismanagement to take a company as powerful as GM was in the 1960's and reduce them to what we have today.

- And Buickman ,

Thats part of what matters . When he showed up it looked like it was going to take a 10-15 year period to get 'out' - given all the rest.

( After decades of what we've done on level playing field issues etc. )

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

- And Buickman ,

Thats part of what matters . When he showed up it looked like it was going to take a 10-15 year period to get 'out' - given all the rest.

( After decades of what we've done on level playing field issues etc. )

FYI - RIR became CFO under the newly appointed Chairman Jack Smith 16 years ago. he has been "at the top" for way too long. he IS the one to be held responsible and accountable.


http://www.answers.com/topic/g-richard-wagoner

"In 1987, he transferred to GM Canada, where he served as vice - president and finance manager for a year, and then director of strategic business planning for the Chevrolet - Pontiac - GM Canada group for another two. He was promoted to vice - president in charge of finance for GM Europe in Zurich, Switzerland, in 1989 and, that same year, was named to GM's board of directors. While in Zurich, Wagoner helped engineer the purchase of half of the Swedish automaker Saab. Wagoner returned to Brazil in 1991 as managing director of GM do Brazil. He remained there for 13 months, implementing global purchasing and cost - cutting programs and improving the company's operations. He was one of only two top executives to be awarded a bonus that year, a testament to the success of his efforts.

Named CFO, COO

"Wagoner had never worked at GM's Detroit, Michigan, headquarters until 1992, when he was named the company's chief financial officer at the age of 39. "He was young, but it didn't worry me," then - CEO Jack Smith told Fortune. "It was an easy call." The following year, Wagoner also took charge of GM's Worldwide Purchasing Group, and in 1994 he was named president of the company's North American Operations, a position that was considered second only to the CEO. Wagoner faced numerous challenges in this position. At the time he took the post, GM made less per car than any other major automobile manufacturer, earning only half the profit per car as Chrysler. It had been losing market share in the United States almost every year since 1962 and neared bankruptcy. The company "possess[ed] a legacy of inefficiency few corporations can rival," asserted industry analyst Scott Hill in Fortune.

"After his first year as CEO, Wagoner expressed relief that the company had turned the tide under his watch."

yeah it turned allright, decidedly toward bankruptcy. catch the part about on the Board since 1989? that's almost TWENTY years? need I say more?