Cadillac XTS and Buick Regal Confirmed!

[Exploder]

OK, just to try and inject a bit of hope into this discussion:

When will Alpha platforms be used for Cadillacs of any size?

[GMJoe]

GM can't afford to build any more mediocre ,also ran, vehicles and they know it.

I guarantee you the next Impala,XTS and Regal will be world class in every respect.

With only four brands to worry about, they can now make sure all their cars are class leading.

[Hunid Racks]

Originally Posted by gagt02

The SRX didn't "beat" the RX. It simply contends with it. Articles also show, that the SRX is obese compared to it's competition. And with the 3.0, it's the slowest. Even slower than the RX. The SrX sporty? just because it's a bit more stiffly sprung than the RX? The RX still beats the SRX in every other category, that even you say is primarily what people shopping for these kind of vehicles want... Refinement and technology. SRX IS A FAIL. And further reviews and road tests will prove it.

I'm calling BS.

You drive an SRX yet?

Sit down and shut up

[ral1960]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

FWD + V8(or bigger) doesn't make any sense what-so-ever.
!!

They've been doing fairly well with FWD V8s since 1967. It wasn't the drive wheels which lost them the luxury crown. It was reliability, fit and finish, unfashionable design, "imported" snob appeal.

I'll bet this car will get the 3.6 (or larger) V6 two-mode. It's too heavy for current Voltec, which is (now) too exotic for this market and requires too many expensive platform changes to use in just one Epsilon car. The new CAFE rules hit in 2012, so no V8 (boo hiss).

IIRC, the 3.6 can be enlarged to 4.0, which with DI should be sufficient for this size car. But can the XWD system handle anything more powerful than the 2.8 turbo?

[Exploder]

I don't understand the comments about the SRX being heavy. It's a featherweight (4300lb) compared to the X5 and ML (nearly 5000lb) and even the RX (4500lb).

[Dr. Show-Me]

In reading the article and the above posts, I don't think Cadillac is positioning this car to be the flagship we all want.
If we think of this in terms of a replacement for the DTS and STS, neither of which fully competes with the S Class, it becomes a very solid awd sedan that isn't their most expensive nor highest performing.
So I think everybody should chill until we get more information. If SRX can have different personalities based on different algorhythms, so can this car.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by Xenon

And? A good lineup is a TEAM EFFORT. That said, how can Cadillac be a credible luxury competitor when there are only 1 sedan that is capable
of living up to the standard?

What "standard" are you referring to?

Is RWD the sole basis for this "standard"?

Can you name an Asian Luxury brand that offers anything like the V series? Any other American brands offer this?

The CTS range is the centerpiece of Cadillac. By this time next year, if all goes right with GM, there will be 5 CTS models (All of them RWD/AWD!). Sedan, Wagon, Coupe, and 2 V-series variants. Are you prepared to assert the CTS is not "credible"?

Even when this new sedan arrives, Cadillac will have 2 FWD/AWD models counting the SRX. All others RWD/AWD.

Where's the shame in that?

.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

In reading the article and the above posts, I don't think Cadillac is positioning this car to be the flagship we all want.
If we think of this in terms of a replacement for the DTS and STS, neither of which fully competes with the S Class, it becomes a very solid awd sedan that isn't their most expensive nor highest performing.
So I think everybody should chill until we get more information.

Thank you Doctor!

You're absolutely right. Everytime the subject of a new Cadillac sedan comes up the "F" word starts to fly.
Cadillac needs a mid-range sedan to appeal to the broad range of people that like large, luxurious sedans and don't give an ounce of cat-poop which set of wheels is doing the work. FWD is, in many areas of the country, preferred to RWD because of its traction in winter weather. AWD in a RWD car is a good compensation but this adds cost, complexity, weight, and
higher fuel consumption.

No one hopes for a large, RWD sedan for Cadillac to run with the big-boys more than I do. But the existence of a FWD sedan in the line up is not the end of the world. All the European names that field cars like the S and the 7 also have large line-ups of smaller less expensive cars that sell in large numbers all over the globe. Cadillac does not have this presence.( I wish it had, but it doesn't.) It would be the height of folly for GM to spend billions to develop it's own S class in return for annual sales that probably wouldn't top the 10K mark. The S itself didn't do that well in this country last year.

[A.J.]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Thank you Doctor!

You're absolutely right. Everytime the subject of a new Cadillac sedan comes up the "F" word starts to fly.
Cadillac needs a mid-range sedan to appeal to the broad range of people that like large, luxurious sedans and don't give an ounce of cat-poop which set of wheels is doing the work. FWD is, in many areas of the country, preferred to RWD because of its traction in winter weather. AWD in a RWD car is a good compensation but this adds cost, complexity, weight, and
higher fuel consumption.

No one hopes for a large, RWD sedan for Cadillac to run with the big-boys more than I do. But the existence of a FWD sedan in the line up is not the end of the world. All the European names that field cars like the S and the 7 also have large line-ups of smaller less expensive cars that sell in large numbers all over the globe. Cadillac does not have this presence.( I wish it had, but it doesn't.) It would be the height of folly for GM to spend billions to develop it's own S class in return for annual sales that probably wouldn't top the 10K mark. The S itself didn't do that well in this country last year.

What have I been saying...there's ALWAYS extreme panic whenever anyone posts "Cadillac" and "FWD" in the same sentence.

We have to realize that FWD-based may be the best financial option right now. Rushing development of the Alpha platform would lead to lower quality, lower reliability, and an overall worse car just because no one would stop crying until they got their precious RWD Cadillac XTS. Then, it would be absolutely no match for the S/7/A8.

Has anyone even driven the new Buick Lacrosse yet? Reserve judgement on the EPII platform until you drive the upcoming XTS's closest sibling - the Lacrosse. The G-Body is going extinct.

[kgm777]

Docray,

Any truth to this? There's now about 15 pages of the usual crap to wade through and I don't have the time or patience to go through it, so sorry if you already answered it. Last I heard, the DT7 was being fitted with batteries and will be built in Lansing, MI on the Epsilon II platform?

It seems Cadillac is replacing the DTS and not the Fleetwood or Brougham.

Thanks

[casket_demon]

I for one am not excited.

[bballer113]

Originally Posted by megeebee

What "standard" are you referring to?

Is RWD the sole basis for this "standard"?

Can you name an Asian Luxury brand that offers anything like the V series? Any other American brands offer this?

The CTS range is the centerpiece of Cadillac. By this time next year, if all goes right with GM, there will be 5 CTS models (All of them RWD/AWD!). Sedan, Wagon, Coupe, and 2 V-series variants. Are you prepared to assert the CTS is not "credible"?

Even when this new sedan arrives, Cadillac will have 2 FWD/AWD models counting the SRX. All others RWD/AWD.

Where's the shame in that?

.

Some folks just don't understand lol

[FoMoCo Fan]

So basically the CTS is now the new STS. The DTS becomes the XTC, er XTS (what happened to DT7?). A new baby Caddy eventually comes to slot below the CTS, maybe?

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by Xenon

Apparently FWD and big luxury don't mix. Have you ever seen an FWD luxury car be successful in it's class, especially at the pricepoint that it's slated to be in ($50K)?

Obvious example of a successful FWD $50K luxury car: the current Deville/DTS!

Despite being incredibly stale, the current model has sold reasonably well. The previous FWD Seville/STS model also sold much better than the RWD version, although that could be for a number of other reasons.

Problem here is that GM has been telling its loyal customers that FWD is the way to go for large luxury cars for the last 25 years. GM essentially created the market for this kind of car, and I can see the logic in maintaining it.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by nsap

Well, there is another twist into this situation.

You are right about Zeta, it is dead as we know it. Once the VF Commodore is done, the investment into Zeta is CLOSED.

However, Alpha is a tricky story. There is speculation that two Alpha's are under development. The one we all know as "Alpha," which is what Cadillac is spearheading development-wise and then a more mainstream Alpha that Holden continued to work on after GM took original "Alpha" development away from them and gave it to Cadillac.

Work on the 6th generation Camaro has already begun, and thus far it is slated for Alpha (at least some variant of it).

Can you clarify the RWD platform plans a bit?

There are currently (2) RWD platforms the Sigma (Original CTS, STS) and Zeta VE (Commodore, Caprice, Sportwagon, UTE, Camaro) with the Sigma being updated to the Sigma II (CTS, CTS Coupe, CTS Wagon) so for NA we have the following:

Sigma: STS
Sigma II: CTS (Sedan, Coupe and Wagon)
Zeta (VE): Camaro

For the "global market" (2011 and on) there will be
Sigma II: CTS (Sedan, Coupe and Wagon) (2009 until?)
Zeta (VE): Camaro (2010 until?)
Zeta (VF): (Commodore, Caprice, Sportwagon, UTE) (2010 until?)


Then the Alpha(s), Alpha-C (Cadillac) and Alpha-H (Holden).

Alpha-C (SWB): BTS (2012 until?)
Alpha-C (LWB) : (CTS?) Not sure
Alpha-H (SWB): Camaro (2015 until?)
Alpha-H (SWB): Torana? (2012 until?)
Alpha-H (LWB): (Commodore, Caprice, Sportwagon, UTE) (2015 until?)

So sometime around 2015 there will only be the (2) Alpha platforms for RWD GM cars.

I can understand why GM would want to consolidate to just (2) versions of a single platform but I am not sure (using BMW as a template) that they can produce cars sized from the 1-series through to LWB 7-series, granted future 7-series cars will get a bit smaller but can't see them shrinking enough to allow a platform that makes a low weight 1-series to be stretched/widened into a LWB 7-series.

Not sure I got that right but, it appears GM is going to have to have another RWD platform either above or below the Alpha(s) - don't know the specs on either Alpha so not sure which direction is correct.