Bush pumps for new energy bill

[FordMan]

Bush pumps for new energy bill

Costlier hydrogen might be hard sell for U.S. drivers

May 26, 2005

BY DEB RIECHMANN
ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON -- President George W. Bush stared inquisitively down into the nozzle of a hydrogen fuel hose Wednesday, then pumped the fuel into a blue compact car as he renewed his plea for Congress to pass a wide-ranging energy bill.

But with the cost of hydrogen double that of premium gasoline, even the president acknowledged that seeing today's children take their driver's tests in pollution-free cars is a long-term goal.

"This is the beginning of fantastic technology," Bush said at a Shell station in northeast Washington, the first retail hydrogen and gasoline fueling station in North America. "Hydrogen is the wave of the future. We're too dependent on foreign sources of energy."

Bush wants an energy bill, among other things, to support the future use of hydrogen instead of gasoline.

Rick Scott, operations and safety coordinator at the station, helped Bush pump 1.83 kilograms into the four-door parked at the pump.

Scott said the hydrogen cost $4.75 a kilogram, to the equivalent of a gallon of gas.

"Congress has been talking too long about the energy bill," said Bush, who is pushing for federal funding to back research of hydrogen-powered vehicles. "I think the American people are tired of waiting. I'm getting a little tired of waiting on the energy bill. ... I want to see the bill to my desk."

Cars running on fuel cells that produce energy by mixing hydrogen with oxygen are already on the road, and Bush has pushed a $1.7-billion hydrogen research program. Administration officials have said it's possible fuel cell cars will be mass-marketed in 15 years.

Most major automakers are developing hydrogen fuel cells that could begin appearing commercially within about two decades. Many say the cost of the vehicles and a lack of fueling stations make them unmarketable for now.


http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/...e_20050526.htm

[JVal14]

"Hydrogen is the wave of the future. We're too dependent on foreign sources of energy."

And where do you think all that hydrogen will be harvested from? The simplest source is still oil.
I like the idea of hydrogen power, but the dynamics of a hydrogen-based economy create enormous obstacles that will need lots of technology to overcome. By the time hydrogen power is realistically feasable, I think renewable energy sources will be advanced enough so that we might as well be plugging our cars into our wall sockets.

[Chief Leadfoot]

I'm not complaining. For too long, we and the rest of the world have funded the spread of Wahhabist Islam through the purchase of oil from the middle east.
Plain hydrogen as a fuel is not more efficient, since the energy units to produce it would require burning oil, but hydrogen cells are somewhat promising. I also like the gas/electric hybrids, but they have a long way to go since I don't want to give up performance. Turning on a defroster shouldn't mean giving up 40mpg.
Don't forget about the presidential announcement last month to give tax credits to those companies developing credible alternatives to gasoline usage. At least they're not pigeonholing the solution to just electric cars.

[Globalist]

Originally Posted by Chief Leadfoot

I'm not complaining. For too long, we and the rest of the world have funded the spread of Wahhabist Islam through the purchase of oil from the middle east.

What is Wahabist Islam? I am aware of Islam as a monotheist religion like Christianism and Judaism.

[Chief Leadfoot]

Wahabbi Islam is the most fundamentalist, repressive form of Islam. This has spawned most of the problems that we are currently dealing with worldwide. For a good breakdown of moderate Islam versus Wahabbi Islam, see here:
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Art...e.asp?ID=17546
More here:
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/467

The House of Saud is divided, with half leaning toward the West and the other half leaning toward imposing a worldwide kingdom of Sharia law with Wahabbi Islam as the only religion.
http://kyl.senate.gov/legis_center/s...03_epstein.pdf

Since 9/11, I've made it my goal to identify just what's going on, and I've read extensively on this subject. I'm no "expert", but I know when I read bu11sheet from the mainstream media apologists.

[JVal14]

Originally Posted by Chief Leadfoot

Wahabbi Islam is the most fundamentalist, repressive form of Islam. This has spawned most of the problems that we are currently dealing with worldwide. For a good breakdown of moderate Islam versus Wahabbi Islam, see here:
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Art...e.asp?ID=17546
More here:
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/467

The House of Saud is divided, with half leaning toward the West and the other half leaning toward imposing a worldwide kingdom of Sharia law with Wahabbi Islam as the only religion.
http://kyl.senate.gov/legis_center/s...03_epstein.pdf

Since 9/11, I've made it my goal to identify just what's going on, and I've read extensively on this subject. I'm no "expert", but I know when I read bu11sheet from the mainstream media apologists.

i get a lot of education in these forums

[Globalist]

Originally Posted by Chief Leadfoot

Wahabbi Islam is the most fundamentalist, repressive form of Islam. This has spawned most of the problems that we are currently dealing with worldwide. For a good breakdown of moderate Islam versus Wahabbi Islam, see here:
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Art...e.asp?ID=17546
More here:
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/467

The House of Saud is divided, with half leaning toward the West and the other half leaning toward imposing a worldwide kingdom of Sharia law with Wahabbi Islam as the only religion.
http://kyl.senate.gov/legis_center/s...03_epstein.pdf

Since 9/11, I've made it my goal to identify just what's going on, and I've read extensively on this subject. I'm no "expert", but I know when I read bu11sheet from the mainstream media apologists.

Don't read too much. There is a lot of intox in what's written about Islam. If you wanted a fair opinion, ask Muslims. You will have a better understanding.

The proof is that the same media doesn't make generalizations about Christianism because of the actions of an extremist group like IRA in Ireland, or other extremist groups elsewhere. Please keep the Islamic religion out of this debate. The coward actions of a tiny group of extremists can't pollute an ocean of more than 1.2 Bil Muslims worldwide.

[ChevyRacing48]

Electrolysis of water separates the water molecule into its elements - hydrogen and oxygen. Don't know if this large scale enough to produce mass quantities though.

Either way, I don't feel like driving around in an atomic bomb anyways..........

[moman]

The problem with the energy bill is that it doesn't do enough to encourage conservation.

The president likes to say we "cannot conserve our way to energy independence". This is true. BUT what we can do is pick the easiest low hanging fruit (which is conservation). Provide incentives for consumers to buy fuel efficient cars. Provide incentives to save energy, get new furnaces, appliances, and whatnot. The benefit on the economy is huge as well.

To me, it's a no brainer. When you are running short of cash every month in a budget, the easiest thing to do is cut expenses (if that is possible). This might not last long term, but it should allow you to save enough money and then you can work on increasing your income. In a couple months, you might find you have saved enough that you don't need an increase in income.

When it's cool to drive around in the car getting the lowest MPG, that shows me there is a lot of opportunity to conserve right there. If someone buys a Corolla, Focus, or Cobalt (or like model) have the gov't give them a $2000 tax break this year and $1500 next year.

Note that my suggestions do not penalize those who buy large SUV's, it only rewards those who conserve. This way, no one can label it unfair.

Now the choice is truly in the consumer's hands.....

[SSrevolution]

The reason why it costs so much is because we don't have the resources right now. Once we can develop refineries and what not the cost should drop significantly. Someone just needs to take the 1st step, and the world will follow.

[plane]

You want hydrogen? The quickest, cheapest source of hydrogen is hydroelectric dams during spring runoff. Instead of lcutting off generators when demand falls below capacity, throw it to an electrolysis plant. Water splits to hydrogen and oxygen. It doesn't even take much voltage.

[idontcareican]

How about a fat government check to help domestic car companies reach the first step - electric hybrids. Hello! We need this technology now. The choice is not one or the other. We can walk and chew gum on this.