Buick, Pontiac, GMC Channel Working

[K Dawg ONE]

As a PBG salesman, i never get half the comment on this site.
If I were to loose Buick if it were to align with Caddy, I would loose my 'near-lux' sales as Pontiac has nothing to offer. If we lost the G5 so that only Chevy had a Cobalt, id loose my sales of that segment. So, you take away my Buick and my G5 and what am I left with?

G8? Sales of that SUCK DONKEY BALLS (lots of 'Its a cool car'...but payments are too high for most and the RWD puts off alot of buyers).

SV6? Next year, we loose the SV6 (as Saturn and Chevy only will be getting the Zephira (SP?)).

G6? Why when you can get an Aura or Bu for the same dollars.

Vibe? Its our best seller and as the largest PBG dealer in Ontario, our inventory is only ever around 5-6 as all our incomming units end up getting presold! And GMI'ers want to get rid of the Vibe? WTH?

As an FYI, all the modles that most of you want to get rid of are the ones that sell.

Leave Buick to PBG so we have our 'higher end' (yes, barely, but, in public opinion, 'higher end') and Chevy can keep Caddy for the same reason.
GMC, we need for our truck/suv buyers.

As for Pontiac, despite interweb blogs cutting down Pontiac, the Wave sells like crazy, we sell 100 units a month of G5, Vibe is always 'On Order', and the SV6 covers the short wheel base that other manufacturers have recently left.

IMO, as a salesman and NOT an enthusist, the only changes needed for PBG is we need a cooler version of the Wave (Beat?) to steal mainstream sales (alot of new europeans buy the wave, but, not 16yr old Joe Cool...he wants a Fit or Yaris) and we need an updated G6 to compete directly with the Bu and Aura. Thats it. Everything else sells fine...

...oh, and better rates for G8 please!

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

As a PBG salesman, i never get half the comment on this site.
If I were to loose Buick if it were to align with Caddy, I would loose my 'near-lux' sales as Pontiac has nothing to offer. If we lost the G5 so that only Chevy had a Cobalt, id loose my sales of that segment. So, you take away my Buick and my G5 and what am I left with?

G8? Sales of that SUCK DONKEY BALLS (lots of 'Its a cool car'...but payments are too high for most and the RWD puts off alot of buyers).

SV6? Next year, we loose the SV6 (as Saturn and Chevy only will be getting the Zephira (SP?)).

G6? Why when you can get an Aura or Bu for the same dollars.

Vibe? Its our best seller and as the largest PBG dealer in Ontario, our inventory is only ever around 5-6 as all our incomming units end up getting presold! And GMI'ers want to get rid of the Vibe? WTH?

As an FYI, all the modles that most of you want to get rid of are the ones that sell.

Leave Buick to PBG so we have our 'higher end' (yes, barely, but, in public opinion, 'higher end') and Chevy can keep Caddy for the same reason.
GMC, we need for our truck/suv buyers.

As for Pontiac, despite interweb blogs cutting down Pontiac, the Wave sells like crazy, we sell 100 units a month of G5, Vibe is always 'On Order', and the SV6 covers the short wheel base that other manufacturers have recently left.

IMO, as a salesman and NOT an enthusist, the only changes needed for PBG is we need a cooler version of the Wave (Beat?) to steal mainstream sales (alot of new europeans buy the wave, but, not 16yr old Joe Cool...he wants a Fit or Yaris) and we need an updated G6 to compete directly with the Bu and Aura. Thats it. Everything else sells fine...

...oh, and better rates for G8 please!

You lose Buick, but get Saturn. Saturn is just as upscale as Buick is right now anyway.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

IMO, as a salesman and NOT an enthusist, the only changes needed for PBG is we need a cooler version of the Wave (Beat?) to steal mainstream sales (alot of new europeans buy the wave, but, not 16yr old Joe Cool...he wants a Fit or Yaris) and we need an updated G6 to compete directly with the Bu and Aura. Thats it. Everything else sells fine...

...oh, and better rates for G8 please!

I would prefer an updated G6 to compete with Mazda, Nissan, Honda, and Toyota products...rather than cannibilize other GM sales.

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by wescoent

You lose Buick, but get Saturn. Saturn is just as upscale as Buick is right now anyway.

What? Is this a joke? Nobody thinks Saturn is luxury!

Look at this luxurious Saturn Outlook! Just like the Enclave, but $10k cheaper! I can see BMW & Cadillac shaking in their boots because of Saturn.

[sdotjoe]

Originally Posted by jckjds

Well, from a dealership perspective, it seems to be going well, but this article doesn't even touch on some of the product integration issues.

There is STILL too much overlap in product. My understanding of PBG was that it was supposed to save GM money by, essentially, condensing 3 brands into one -- which should, hypothetically, greatly reduce overlap. That has happened to some extent, but not enough.

Pontiac should be limited to 3 cars. Solstice, Alpha G6, and Zeta G8 (coupe versions could be utilized as Firebirds and GTO's.

Buick should be limited to two cars and MAYBE the Enclave. A Midsize FWD near lux car and a large FWD near lux car is all that Buick NEEDs. The Enclave could be kept around bc of its success, but with GMC providing the Truck/SUV component of the trio, this creates a little overlap. But, one overlapping vehicle isn't bad, especially when it's as well done as the Enclave.

GMC should provide all of the Trucks and SUVs for the grouping.

THAT'S IT. NO MORE G5'S AND STUPID REBADGES. These should be niche cars, not mass sellers -- that's what Chevy is for. Furthermore, Pontiac's cars should be almost identical to their Aussie counterarts to create additional savings. Honestly, with the direction Opel is headed, GM should probably go ahead and ditch Saturn and make Buick rebadged Opel's (like the new insignia instead of the so-so Lacrosse replacement, and a larger car of the same design to replace the Lucerne.

I was with you up until the whole Buick-Opel partnership. Opels are Euro-sporty where as Buicks are Elegant.

I always felt that GM dropped the ball with the G6 convertible, I think they wasted a good top on a mediocre car, they could've taken the shortened EPI platform they used for it to make a Velite-esque Riviera hardtop convertible and sold it from $30K-$35K as opposed to a fleet queen G6 at $20K-$25K.

[fan]

I posted this some time ago...
(Re: GMI Exclusive: 2010 Saturn Aura on "Hold")

Originally Posted by fan

Well, Pontiac could very well live along getting rebadged Saturns(Aura, Astra, Corsa) , no?
+ G8, Solstice and Vibe. Killing Pontiac or Saturn would be risky and in the short term it
would mean losing money and market share which GM doesn't really need now.
So, for now, a good option would be to give Pontiac rebdaged Saturns having twin grilles of course. Brand image could be built by the way of advertising. For Pontiac, there should be advertised G8 and Solstice and a GXP version of Aura. Saturn instead should be promoted as a green brand - Aura hybrid, Vue hybrid - forget about red line.
It could also be a test to check which brand has more potential having similar products and
in the long run if one proves to be redundant(Pontiac) or doesn' meet expectations(Saturn), then kill one(which would be sad).

So, Pontiac would sell regular and OPC versions of Opels and Saturn would sell regular and
hybrid versions. Minor stylistical changes lige grilles would be enough if more is not possible.Well, the more original Pontiac RWD would be the better, but this depends
on resources available.

[K Dawg ONE]

Originally Posted by wescoent

You lose Buick, but get Saturn. Saturn is just as upscale as Buick is right now anyway.

We own a Saturn-SAAB dealership in our building next door....I have NEVER EVER EVER sold a Saturn to someone looking at a Buick.
In the target demographic of Buick (im sorry, but it IS old people), they want the simplicity of a Buick interior. They like that their exterior looks like their Regal, Century, etc. They dont WANT bluetooth, projector headlamps, nav, etc. They want bench seats, column shift, and casette decks.

The Enclave driver is not old in age, but, is well positioned financially in life. He wants all the technology in the world, but, with the CLASS of a Buick. Hes late 30's/early forties with his kids just gone off to University. He finally just got his partnership at the office and has just payed off his house. He wants something to take out clients in durring the week, but, can still haul his kayaking equipment on the weekend. He does not want an Outlook,....this customer views the Outlook in the same light as a Chevy work truck.

This is not an opinion I have created out of thin air...this is my day to day experiences that I deal with 6 days a week.

Do not take what im saying with a grain of salt.....shovel that sh¡t into your mouth whole as FACT!

Thank you

[Rocket 88]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

We own a Saturn-SAAB dealership in our building next door....I have NEVER EVER EVER sold a Saturn to someone looking at a Buick.

In the target demographic of Buick (im sorry, but it IS old people), they want the simplicity of a Buick interior.

This is not an opinion I have created out of thin air...this is my day to day experiences that I deal with 6 days a week.

Do not take what im saying with a grain of salt.....shovel that sh¡t into your mouth whole as FACT!
Thank you

While K Dawg ONE wins my "Needs to be on Decaf coffee" award, I have to agree with him. Saturn and Buick are probably almost never cross shopped.

More importantly, I think some of the folks who are talking about intergrating Saturn into BPG or having Opel share vehicles with Pontiac are really wrong.
Doing such would ultimately make Saturn just another GM division... the last thing GM needs. If you start selling Saturn products (Opels) at other dealers, Saturn becomes completely irrelevant.

[fan]

Originally Posted by Rocket 88

More importantly, I think some of the folks who are talking about intergrating Saturn into BPG or having Opel share vehicles with Pontiac are really wrong.
Doing such would ultimately make Saturn just another GM division... the last thing GM needs. If you start selling Saturn products (Opels) at other dealers, Saturn becomes completely irrelevant.

Saturn has a separate sales channel. Is marketed differently (gets hybrids, best sales experience, quirky brand). It's not likely it would be cross-shopped with Pontiac. I want to say that instead of starving Pontiac this could be an option. If there are resources to give all GM's brands enough unique products, fine, but if not, there are priorities: Cadillac, Buick. Instead of investing in Pontiac, better give it some Opels and invest the money in Cadillac and Buick - they are far from having complete luxury line-ups like Mercedes and BMW.
And anyway Chevy is not less relevant because Pontiac sells rebadged Aveos and Cobalts.

[K Dawg ONE]

Originally Posted by Rocket 88

While K Dawg ONE wins my "Needs to be on Decaf coffee" award, I have to agree with him.

Hahahaha...thanks for that...i ƒucking laughed out loud so loud when I read that that everyone in the showroom was looking at me like I was nuts.

It really cheered me up after watching that lack-luster Camaro reveal, lol!

BTW, I added the quote to my sig

[tripowergto]

Thank You for your insight K Dawg One. I completely agree with everything you stated. Pontiac certainly needs some smaller fuel efficient models even if they must be rebadges.

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

As an FYI, all the modles that most of you want to get rid of are the ones that sell.

I've been trying to make that point around here for a while

Oh, and PBG has 1600 dealerships versus Toyota/Scion's 1450 dealerships and Toyota probably sells 5x as many cars. You can not turn them into niche brands with this large number of stores.

PBG needs affordable mainstream sedans and trucks, and almost by definition they will end up very similar to Chevy models.

[04bonnie]

Originally Posted by jckjds

Well, from a dealership perspective, it seems to be going well, but this article doesn't even touch on some of the product integration issues.

There is STILL too much overlap in product. My understanding of PBG was that it was supposed to save GM money by, essentially, condensing 3 brands into one -- which should, hypothetically, greatly reduce overlap. That has happened to some extent, but not enough.

Pontiac should be limited to 3 cars. Solstice, Alpha G6, and Zeta G8 (coupe versions could be utilized as Firebirds and GTO's.

Buick should be limited to two cars and MAYBE the Enclave. A Midsize FWD near lux car and a large FWD near lux car is all that Buick NEEDs. The Enclave could be kept around bc of its success, but with GMC providing the Truck/SUV component of the trio, this creates a little overlap. But, one overlapping vehicle isn't bad, especially when it's as well done as the Enclave.

GMC should provide all of the Trucks and SUVs for the grouping.

THAT'S IT. NO MORE G5'S AND STUPID REBADGES. These should be niche cars, not mass sellers -- that's what Chevy is for. Furthermore, Pontiac's cars should be almost identical to their Aussie counterarts to create additional savings. Honestly, with the direction Opel is headed, GM should probably go ahead and ditch Saturn and make Buick rebadged Opel's (like the new insignia instead of the so-so Lacrosse replacement, and a larger car of the same design to replace the Lucerne.

The thing is, the G5 needs to be there because without it, BPG wouldn't have a small car to offer. It's not overlap within the same dealer, so that's ok. As far as other cars, who cares if the Lacross and the Grand Prix are on the same platform, and a little overlap of design, they are different enough that there are people that will buy both. If the Bonneville was still around, it would overlap some with the Lucerne, but still, different vehicles. I worked at a BPG dealer in the late 90's, and Bonnevilles and Lesabres were never shopped against each other, totally different buyers. Overlap of the G5 and the Cobalt doesn't matter in this case, unless the dealer chain offers Chevy too.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

As a PBG salesman, i never get half the comment on this site.
If I were to loose Buick if it were to align with Caddy, I would loose my 'near-lux' sales as Pontiac has nothing to offer. If we lost the G5 so that only Chevy had a Cobalt, id loose my sales of that segment. So, you take away my Buick and my G5 and what am I left with?

G8? Sales of that SUCK DONKEY BALLS (lots of 'Its a cool car'...but payments are too high for most and the RWD puts off alot of buyers).

SV6? Next year, we loose the SV6 (as Saturn and Chevy only will be getting the Zephira (SP?)).

G6? Why when you can get an Aura or Bu for the same dollars.

Vibe? Its our best seller and as the largest PBG dealer in Ontario, our inventory is only ever around 5-6 as all our incomming units end up getting presold! And GMI'ers want to get rid of the Vibe? WTH?

As an FYI, all the modles that most of you want to get rid of are the ones that sell.

Leave Buick to PBG so we have our 'higher end' (yes, barely, but, in public opinion, 'higher end') and Chevy can keep Caddy for the same reason.
GMC, we need for our truck/suv buyers.

As for Pontiac, despite interweb blogs cutting down Pontiac, the Wave sells like crazy, we sell 100 units a month of G5, Vibe is always 'On Order', and the SV6 covers the short wheel base that other manufacturers have recently left.

IMO, as a salesman and NOT an enthusist, the only changes needed for PBG is we need a cooler version of the Wave (Beat?) to steal mainstream sales (alot of new europeans buy the wave, but, not 16yr old Joe Cool...he wants a Fit or Yaris) and we need an updated G6 to compete directly with the Bu and Aura. Thats it. Everything else sells fine...

...oh, and better rates for G8 please!

You bring up many good points that unfortunately get lost on most GMI members who have never sold cars for a living.

GM should have never dropped the Century and if the LaCrosse would have had a 3500 V6 standard (3800 opt) with cornering lights that added a "luxury" touch but was cut to pay for a 3.6L engine it did not need and had Regal features like Fog Lights added GM would be selling over 10,000 of them a month.

GM could have offered the LaCrosse as an uplevel model (like the Regal) with the 3.6L engine and a much better suspension like the one on the Super or better yet a Magnaride option to justify a higher price.

The LeSabre name should have never been dropped and you would sell more Lucernes if they were named LeSabre.

Pontiac would have been a better brand to put the Astra with and in OPC/VXR trim - they would have sold just like the Vibe.

The G6 could also sell better if you could get a 6-way power seat with cloth seats (along with better materials) and why can't you get Fog Lights with a 2.4L Engine?

GMC should have a version of the Avalanche as well as a Extended Cab Sierra Denali - both would boost sales.

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

We own a Saturn-SAAB dealership in our building next door....I have NEVER EVER EVER sold a Saturn to someone looking at a Buick.
In the target demographic of Buick (im sorry, but it IS old people), they want the simplicity of a Buick interior. They like that their exterior looks like their Regal, Century, etc. They dont WANT bluetooth, projector headlamps, nav, etc. They want bench seats, column shift, and casette decks.

The Enclave driver is not old in age, but, is well positioned financially in life. He wants all the technology in the world, but, with the CLASS of a Buick. Hes late 30's/early forties with his kids just gone off to University. He finally just got his partnership at the office and has just payed off his house. He wants something to take out clients in durring the week, but, can still haul his kayaking equipment on the weekend. He does not want an Outlook,....this customer views the Outlook in the same light as a Chevy work truck.

This is not an opinion I have created out of thin air...this is my day to day experiences that I deal with 6 days a week.

Do not take what im saying with a grain of salt.....shovel that sh¡t into your mouth whole as FACT!

Thank you

Saturns are for people afraid to buy cars.

Sorry, but that is the first thing I think of when I see a Saturn.

Saturn has some nice looking cars, but an image that doesn't fit the cars - it needs to be what it started as or be the next GEO for Chevy.

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by tripowergto

Pontiac certainly needs some smaller fuel efficient models even if they must be rebadges.

And thats just it, with my proposed B-P-G lineup, (on page 1 or something) Buick has a vehicle on Delta II, and a vehicle on Epsilon II. While Pontiac has Kappa II, or SWB Alpha, as well as an Alpha G6 and Zeta (G8) This gives both brands a full lineup of FWD and RWD vehicles that make each brand more relevant when sold together. I would definitely give Pontiac a version of the Astra, while Buick gets a version of the Cruze(should be Invicta) Aside from brand loyalty, this lineup has it all, and at a slightly better quality than its Chevy counterpart, and best of all, no rebadges within the dealership.