Blow Your Horn, Detroit

moman · 10-07-2005, 02:50 PM

By David Welch

Blow Your Horn, Detroit

U.S. auto makers have passenger cars that are reliable, fuel efficient, and good looking. They're just not making enough of a noise about it

As if Detroit carmakers didn't have enough to worry about with huge retiree costs and falling SUV sales, now they have another problem: After years of softness, the passenger car market is showing a few flickering signs of picking up. And that's where Detroit's image is weakest.

Get a load of these numbers: In September, when gas prices jumped and the employee price deals that recently helped move so many trucks petered out, passenger car sales jumped 6.3%. Sales of light trucks fell 17%. For the month, car sales were 48.5% of the market, up from about 45% -- a number that has held steady in the past couple of years.

This is bad news for the Big Three because foreign carmakers, especially those from Japan and Korea, have come to dominate this market. The myth is that General Motors (GM ), Ford (F ), and DaimlerChrysler's (DCX ) Chrysler Group can't build reliable, fuel-efficient, or attractive passenger cars. But while it's clear that the Japanese and, increasingly, Korean auto makers Hyundai and Kia have some of the best cars in their segments, American carmakers also have some good models.

ROTTEN RESALE. What they don't have is image -- especially among those who are really worried about fuel economy. Part of that comes from the fact that Toyota (TOY ) and Honda (HMC ) beat Detroit by several years in coming out with hybrids. But Detroit also has not invested as much money in their passenger cars, and until recently it didn't prioritize them as much when it came to design and technology.

Honda and Toyota have long been leaders in using overhead cam technology and transmissions with more gears, which make cars more fuel efficient. And Honda and Toyota came out with good, small SUVs ahead of Detroit. The Japanese have used these innovations to stake a claim that they're sophisticated, 21st century companies while their rivals are rusty dinosaurs.

Truth is, Detroit has some good passenger cars that boast quality and fuel economy that beat some Toyota models. But many consumers don't know it -- and plenty of them don't care. American models are in many cases just as good -- but have not leapfrogged the likes of Toyota and Honda with enough styling and technology to make loyal Japanese owners go domestic. Another big problem: Cars from Toyota, Honda, and Nissan (NSANY ) usually have better resale values, and Internet research has educated more consumers about that.

"DELIGHT OR DIE." GM has some bragging rights when it comes to fuel economy. The Chevrolet Impala and Malibu sedans are more efficient than many competing models. GM's powertrain engineers may be the best in the industry when it comes to wringing better fuel numbers out of even the oldest engines. "We're exceptionally good on fuel economy and exceptionally good on value," says Paul Ballew, GM's executive director of global market and industry analysis. "Do we need to get that message out? Yes, we do."

For that matter, so do GM's crosstown rivals. Ford emphasized fuel economy when it brought out its 500 midsize sedan, giving it a six-speed transmission that helps the car get 24 miles per gallon (city and highway combined). Chrysler's popular 300 has a V-8 engine that shuts four cylinders down when cruising for highway mileage of 27 mpg.

The problem is that among those cars, only the 300 has really grabbed the attention of consumers. And it did so because the styling is bold enough to turn heads. The Impala, Malibu, and 500 wear very conservative sheet metal. Inside, their cabins aren't as well appointed as Toyota's Camry. Nor do they have the quality image of cars from Toyota and Honda.

In other words, domestic models with a good fuel-economy story do exist. But if the rest of the car doesn't really break through with the mass market, it will be tough to capitalize. Dan Gorrell, the automotive partner with Strategic Visions, which does research on why consumers gravitate to different cars, is fond of saying, "Delight or die is what Detroit has to live by."

SHINY OPELS. If you go to the West Coast and check out the "Tuner" crowd -- a coterie of young car buffs who tune up the horsepower of their cars and trick them out with spoilers, flashy paint, and trim -- you'll see that they favor mostly Japanese cars. Honda, Subaru, and even lowly Mitsubishi have done well among the Tuners.

Chrysler showed it can do it with the 300. Ford's midsize Fusion will hit the market soon. Car and Driver Editor-in-Chief Csaba Csere, one of the industry's top car critics, told me it's a credible competitor to foreign models.

GM can do it. Behind G. Richard Wagoner Jr. at GM's stand at the Frankfurt Auto Show were some Opel models with bold, athletic styling that's catching on in Europe. The Opel Astra is a hit, and its Astra OPC model -- a compact amped up with 240 horsepower -- would be great on the West Coast hot-rod scene. Eventually, a car similar to the Astra OPC will be sold by Saturn, but not until late in the decade.

....

Rest of article here
http://www.businessweek.com/innovate...=david%20welch

**Ming** · 10-07-2005, 04:35 PM

Well said. What I see most of in Texas from GM, Ford and Dodge are truck and SUV commercials. Sure, that is an important market here, but when people think fuel efficiency, they assume that they have to go to Toyohonda dealers to get it.

GM has a great versatile, fuel efficient 5-door car in the Malibu Maxx, but few people I've talked to around here even know what it is or that it exists. And already rumors are that GM will cancel it in a couple of years. What a pitiful advertising effort, with predictable results.

SSrevolution · 10-07-2005, 04:35 PM

GM has been whiffing with bragging about what they've got for years. IMO they are still way out in left field with advertising and all that goes with it.

GM_Fanatic · 10-07-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

and plenty of them don't care.

Thats what bugs me, how ignorant these import worshippers are.

Matt 08 · 10-07-2005, 05:10 PM

I agree 100% with that article. The BIG 3 have some of the best cars on the road but no one knows about. Where are the GM marketers and advertisers when you need them. I mean the GM engineers design these awesome vehicles and then it all goes to waste if the consumers dont't purchase them.

camaro_freak · 10-07-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GM_Fanatic

Thats what bugs me, how ignorant these import worshippers are.

so by GM failing to market their own product correctly, people should automatically know the product is better?

That is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

That would almost be a Catch-22 senario would it not?

If GM would have done their job marketing the product right, people would have known about how the incredible strides at all levels (quality, gas mileage, etc). Then the company wouldn't be in junk bond status right now and ailing with less then half of the marketshare they had back in the 50s.

give me a break!

AJR · 10-07-2005, 05:39 PM

The Big 2 have some nice sedans, but I still don't feel they are better than the imports. I would not have any problem with an Accord EX sedan over the Detroit competition - save the Ford Fusion. However, the Accord is more powerful, has a high quality interior and with the new styling touches actually isn't that bad looking of a car. The Fusion looks better in my opinion and the interior is interesting, but I have this feeling that I am still buying an inferior car. Ford and GM still cut too many corners and it shows at times.

The current Camry doesn't do much for me, but I have a feeling the next one will be pretty sharp and will send Detroit back to the drawing board. Toyota has an abundance of $, experience, and equipment it could apply from its Lexus division that I don't see with Ford or GM. The Impala is pretty nice (from what I've seen) but it just has this no-name look to it.

I'm sorry, but I'm still inclined to go with the Japanese if I need a sedan, which I don't. Ford is on the right track, in my opinion, with the Fusion; I just feel it can do a little more.

AJR · 10-07-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaro_freak

so by GM failing to market their own product correctly, people should automatically know that said product is better?

That is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

If GM would have done their job marketing the product right, people would have known about how the incredible strides at all levels (quality, gas mileage, etc).

give me a break!

I have seen the great strides from GM concerning build quality on the new Impala. The fit and finish is very good. My problem with it is its non-descript styling. I think GM has to do more to get people in its sedans.

63GrandSport001 · 10-07-2005, 06:22 PM

This is a up hill battle inwhich some people dont care how good an American car is they still wont buy it. Customers can be extremely stubborn about these kinda things, I know I sell computers and for every brand of compuer there are customers that refuse to buy them even Sony.

**Ming** · 10-07-2005, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

every brand of compuer there are customers that refuse to buy them even Sony.

I'm one of those who refuses to buy a Sony computer, mainly because aside from the often miniaturized, pretty packages they come in, they are usually underpowered for their price (you pay for the glitz and glamor of the shell) and hard to upgrade (not built for generic PC upgrades). Always seemed to me like what an inexperienced PC buyer who likes stylish things and/or has lots of money to burn would buy.

I love Sony monitors, though, and will pay more for the visual quality they offer. May seem like a contradiction, but I spend most of my time looking at the screen, not my PC box.

darknight9 · 10-07-2005, 06:34 PM

Last 2.2 Malibu that I rented got 37mpg on the freeway @ 75mph! Where is the friggin ad at for that? My Ion with the same engine and a 5 speed auto barely musters 33 on the freeway, what's up with that crap?

darknight9 · 10-07-2005, 06:37 PM

[/quote]I love Sony monitors, though, and will pay more for the visual quality they offer. May seem like a contradiction, but I spend most of my time looking at the screen, not my PC box.[/quote]

That's funny. I purchased a Sony notebook because the "xBrite" display was killer. Everywhere I read said the rest of the machine was just ok. They do have excellent displays, always have.

LI CADILLAC · 10-07-2005, 07:03 PM

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editoria...A17-340003.htm

great read

cfch3399 · 10-07-2005, 07:49 PM

I find it bizarre that Americans will grant that the Big 3 make good trucks but won't give their cars a chance. Maybe they need to use cars and trucks in the same ad to establish a connection in people's minds.

01cavalier · 10-07-2005, 08:25 PM

Its true the cars are very good in almost all aspects, the problem with GM is, they have been pushing the deal way too much. Huge rebates really do cheapen the car and the image. Now they need to push the product as much as they used to push the ridiculously huge rebates! Bring up the quality more, and not just on prime time TV, all the time, TV, radio, print and anything else people will see.

10-07-2005, 02:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
moman 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MO & FL Posts: 1,932	Blow Your Horn, Detroit By David Welch Blow Your Horn, Detroit U.S. auto makers have passenger cars that are reliable, fuel efficient, and good looking. They're just not making enough of a noise about it As if Detroit carmakers didn't have enough to worry about with huge retiree costs and falling SUV sales, now they have another problem: After years of softness, the passenger car market is showing a few flickering signs of picking up. And that's where Detroit's image is weakest. Get a load of these numbers: In September, when gas prices jumped and the employee price deals that recently helped move so many trucks petered out, passenger car sales jumped 6.3%. Sales of light trucks fell 17%. For the month, car sales were 48.5% of the market, up from about 45% -- a number that has held steady in the past couple of years. This is bad news for the Big Three because foreign carmakers, especially those from Japan and Korea, have come to dominate this market. The myth is that General Motors (GM ), Ford (F ), and DaimlerChrysler's (DCX ) Chrysler Group can't build reliable, fuel-efficient, or attractive passenger cars. But while it's clear that the Japanese and, increasingly, Korean auto makers Hyundai and Kia have some of the best cars in their segments, American carmakers also have some good models. ROTTEN RESALE. What they don't have is image -- especially among those who are really worried about fuel economy. Part of that comes from the fact that Toyota (TOY ) and Honda (HMC ) beat Detroit by several years in coming out with hybrids. But Detroit also has not invested as much money in their passenger cars, and until recently it didn't prioritize them as much when it came to design and technology. Honda and Toyota have long been leaders in using overhead cam technology and transmissions with more gears, which make cars more fuel efficient. And Honda and Toyota came out with good, small SUVs ahead of Detroit. The Japanese have used these innovations to stake a claim that they're sophisticated, 21st century companies while their rivals are rusty dinosaurs. Truth is, Detroit has some good passenger cars that boast quality and fuel economy that beat some Toyota models. But many consumers don't know it -- and plenty of them don't care. American models are in many cases just as good -- but have not leapfrogged the likes of Toyota and Honda with enough styling and technology to make loyal Japanese owners go domestic. Another big problem: Cars from Toyota, Honda, and Nissan (NSANY ) usually have better resale values, and Internet research has educated more consumers about that. "DELIGHT OR DIE." GM has some bragging rights when it comes to fuel economy. The Chevrolet Impala and Malibu sedans are more efficient than many competing models. GM's powertrain engineers may be the best in the industry when it comes to wringing better fuel numbers out of even the oldest engines. "We're exceptionally good on fuel economy and exceptionally good on value," says Paul Ballew, GM's executive director of global market and industry analysis. "Do we need to get that message out? Yes, we do." For that matter, so do GM's crosstown rivals. Ford emphasized fuel economy when it brought out its 500 midsize sedan, giving it a six-speed transmission that helps the car get 24 miles per gallon (city and highway combined). Chrysler's popular 300 has a V-8 engine that shuts four cylinders down when cruising for highway mileage of 27 mpg. The problem is that among those cars, only the 300 has really grabbed the attention of consumers. And it did so because the styling is bold enough to turn heads. The Impala, Malibu, and 500 wear very conservative sheet metal. Inside, their cabins aren't as well appointed as Toyota's Camry. Nor do they have the quality image of cars from Toyota and Honda. In other words, domestic models with a good fuel-economy story do exist. But if the rest of the car doesn't really break through with the mass market, it will be tough to capitalize. Dan Gorrell, the automotive partner with Strategic Visions, which does research on why consumers gravitate to different cars, is fond of saying, "Delight or die is what Detroit has to live by." SHINY OPELS. If you go to the West Coast and check out the "Tuner" crowd -- a coterie of young car buffs who tune up the horsepower of their cars and trick them out with spoilers, flashy paint, and trim -- you'll see that they favor mostly Japanese cars. Honda, Subaru, and even lowly Mitsubishi have done well among the Tuners. Chrysler showed it can do it with the 300. Ford's midsize Fusion will hit the market soon. Car and Driver Editor-in-Chief Csaba Csere, one of the industry's top car critics, told me it's a credible competitor to foreign models. GM can do it. Behind G. Richard Wagoner Jr. at GM's stand at the Frankfurt Auto Show were some Opel models with bold, athletic styling that's catching on in Europe. The Opel Astra is a hit, and its Astra OPC model -- a compact amped up with 240 horsepower -- would be great on the West Coast hot-rod scene. Eventually, a car similar to the Astra OPC will be sold by Saturn, but not until late in the decade. .... Rest of article here http://www.businessweek.com/innovate...=david%20welch __________________ Moman Current Rides 1997 Chevy Silverado Ext cab Z71 - 5700 V8 2008 Chevy Corvette - LS3

10-07-2005, 04:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ming GMI Staff Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: SE Texas Posts: 13,430	Re: Blow Your Horn, Detroit Well said. What I see most of in Texas from GM, Ford and Dodge are truck and SUV commercials. Sure, that is an important market here, but when people think fuel efficiency, they assume that they have to go to Toyohonda dealers to get it. GM has a great versatile, fuel efficient 5-door car in the Malibu Maxx, but few people I've talked to around here even know what it is or that it exists. And already rumors are that GM will cancel it in a couple of years. What a pitiful advertising effort, with predictable results. __________________ The Latest: Step by Step - How to Play Commodore 64 Games on a PC

10-07-2005, 04:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
SSrevolution 5.3 Liter LS4 V8 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Westerville Ohio Drives: 02 Camaro SS 94 Caprice 9C1 Posts: 3,030	Re: Blow Your Horn, Detroit GM has been whiffing with bragging about what they've got for years. IMO they are still way out in left field with advertising and all that goes with it.

10-07-2005, 05:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
Matt 08 3.5 Liter V6 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ontario Drives: 1994 Grand AM SE Posts: 264	Re: Blow Your Horn, Detroit I agree 100% with that article. The BIG 3 have some of the best cars on the road but no one knows about. Where are the GM marketers and advertisers when you need them. I mean the GM engineers design these awesome vehicles and then it all goes to waste if the consumers dont't purchase them. __________________ - M A T T 0 8 - "As the world's largest automotive producer GM is not only committed to improving their cars, their committed to improving all cars"

10-07-2005, 05:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
AJR 3.6 Liter V6 Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,210	Re: Blow Your Horn, Detroit The Big 2 have some nice sedans, but I still don't feel they are better than the imports. I would not have any problem with an Accord EX sedan over the Detroit competition - save the Ford Fusion. However, the Accord is more powerful, has a high quality interior and with the new styling touches actually isn't that bad looking of a car. The Fusion looks better in my opinion and the interior is interesting, but I have this feeling that I am still buying an inferior car. Ford and GM still cut too many corners and it shows at times. The current Camry doesn't do much for me, but I have a feeling the next one will be pretty sharp and will send Detroit back to the drawing board. Toyota has an abundance of $, experience, and equipment it could apply from its Lexus division that I don't see with Ford or GM. The Impala is pretty nice (from what I've seen) but it just has this no-name look to it. I'm sorry, but I'm still inclined to go with the Japanese if I need a sedan, which I don't. Ford is on the right track, in my opinion, with the Fusion; I just feel it can do a little more.

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10-07-2005, 06:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
63GrandSport001 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,733	Re: Blow Your Horn, Detroit This is a up hill battle inwhich some people dont care how good an American car is they still wont buy it. Customers can be extremely stubborn about these kinda things, I know I sell computers and for every brand of compuer there are customers that refuse to buy them even Sony.

10-07-2005, 06:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
darknight9 3.8 Liter V6 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: My Coffee Shop Drives: 01 Honda S2000 04 Saturn ION 3 Posts: 387	Re: Blow Your Horn, Detroit Last 2.2 Malibu that I rented got 37mpg on the freeway @ 75mph! Where is the friggin ad at for that? My Ion with the same engine and a 5 speed auto barely musters 33 on the freeway, what's up with that crap? __________________ 2001 Honda S2000 2004 Saturn Ion 2004 Colorado Z71 Toyota >>moving>>*boredom* Proud owner of an Independent coffee house!

10-07-2005, 06:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
darknight9 3.8 Liter V6 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: My Coffee Shop Drives: 01 Honda S2000 04 Saturn ION 3 Posts: 387	Re: Blow Your Horn, Detroit [/quote]I love Sony monitors, though, and will pay more for the visual quality they offer. May seem like a contradiction, but I spend most of my time looking at the screen, not my PC box.[/quote] That's funny. I purchased a Sony notebook because the "xBrite" display was killer. Everywhere I read said the rest of the machine was just ok. They do have excellent displays, always have. __________________ 2001 Honda S2000 2004 Saturn Ion 2004 Colorado Z71 Toyota >>moving>>*boredom* Proud owner of an Independent coffee house!

10-07-2005, 07:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
LI CADILLAC 3.8 Liter V6 Join Date: Aug 2005 Drives: 3.6 CADILLAC CTS Posts: 305	Re: Blow Your Horn, Detroit http://www.detnews.com/2005/editoria...A17-340003.htm great read

10-07-2005, 07:49 PM	#14 (permalink)
cfch3399 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,619	Re: Blow Your Horn, Detroit I find it bizarre that Americans will grant that the Big 3 make good trucks but won't give their cars a chance. Maybe they need to use cars and trucks in the same ad to establish a connection in people's minds.

10-07-2005, 08:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
01cavalier 6.0 Liter LS2 V8 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Portland, OR Drives: 2007 Cobalt Posts: 4,818	Re: Blow Your Horn, Detroit Its true the cars are very good in almost all aspects, the problem with GM is, they have been pushing the deal way too much. Huge rebates really do cheapen the car and the image. Now they need to push the product as much as they used to push the ridiculously huge rebates! Bring up the quality more, and not just on prime time TV, all the time, TV, radio, print and anything else people will see.

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