The Biggest Losers @ $4.00

[vam29]

Chev-Pontiac-Buick- Cadillac- = 30+% market share . Sooner or later. Period.

[member12]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Only brand/vehicle that shouldn't be on the list is Saturn. They finally have a nice lineup and they are still not selling vehicles. Though it isn't a surprise if the Vue and Outlook took sales hits.

Saturn has chosen not to compete in the small car market for so long. The new Astra doesn't get the mileage that it should, and it's price is going to hurt it.

The Aura 4 cylinder can't be had (at least not until recently) with higher end options. It is still not available with a manual, and the 3.6L engine is a bit thirsty.

Saturn, in my opinion, needs a sub-Astra car with a great price and great fuel economy.

[member12]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

My guess is GM will promote Jill to head of North America and move another marketing exec at Saturn to head the Division. You know, since both are doing such stellar jobs.

God, I should have gotten an MBA and worked for American enterprise. 9:00 am - 4:30 pm, zero accountability, zero vision, zero stress, zero experience, and a high six figure salary with a severance package. You can't make this **** up!

Uh...what American enterprises work their MBA's less than 60 hours a week with zero stress, zero vision, and zero accountability? I would like to know this information and what grad schools they recruit from.

I work about 60 hours a week now, but I'm at the bottom of the chain (which only means that the **** flows downhill faster now that the economy is hurting). My bosses all work 50-60 hours a week...except that they receive the perks (like golf trips, gifts, and free meals) for other people's work.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Management gets cut. You just don't hear about it. Other than big name executives how many senior manger and director level personally can you name? Hell you probably can't even name the VP's. These are the people who get canned when things go wrong, because on a day to day level they are the ones making decisions. Outside of generic strategic goals executives don't get involved in the specifics unless they have to. They are busy trying to mange the company as a whole.

So you are saying GM management does no wrong and are perfect in every way and should NEVER be criticized. Yes or No.

How many managers are dropped when a model, plant or dealership is?

GM has far too many administrative managers and has for decades and GM must get its "management to sales" in line with Toyota as it does with the hourly workers. GM is close to Toyota on a hourly worker per vehicle assembled ratio with more admistrative managers per vehicle but fewer engineers per vehicle.

This has been GM's fundamental structural problem for years and they show no signs of fixing it and I do not remember seeing where GM canned 50% of its management. I do not like to see job cuts but GM had better increase its sales or reduce its mangement.

[tntwit]

The Aura 4 cylinder can't be had (at least not until recently) with higher end options. It is still not available with a manual, and the 3.6L engine is a bit thirsty.

I found this frustrating as well and believe it has hurt the Aura. Last year it was only available with the V6, so this is an improvement, but the 4 cylinder should have been available all along. Look at the Camry and Accord and what percentage of units ship with 4 cylinders (I believe the Camry is around 80%) and have all along, long before gas was $4. There is no doubt it hurt their sales. Gas prices were a concern last summer and Saturn's pitch was 'buy the Aura over the Honda and Toyota because you get a V6 for the same money', while conveniently ignoring the fact that a 4 cylinder wasn't even an option.

For 2008 you can now get the 4 cylinder, but with limitations. Check Saturn's website. You cannot get Stabilitrak, aluminum wheels or the 6 speed without a V6, yet all of this is available on the Malibu (although you have to get a pricey LTZ for the 6 speed which should change for 2009) with a 4 cylinder. Back ten years ago, Saturn's pitch was that you could get what you wanted. What happened to that concept?

It looks promising that this will change for 2009 as we know the 6 speed will be added and you are supposed to (I believe) be able to get the 4 cylinder across the board. However, they wasted 2 model years sending at least some potential customers elsewhere, even if it was to the Chevy dealership. This was a brand new model and first impressions are important.

My wife and I really like the Aura, and it may very well be in our future, but I think Saturn made some serious mistakes with this one.

[Stéphane Dumas]

Originally Posted by zete

Nissan still sells Titans?

And is the drop off in Avalons due to $4 gas or is the Avalon demographic keeling over to quickly. I don't know anyone under 70 who owns one or wants one.

Maybe Toyota should had keep the Cressida nameplate to recycle it for a FWD model instead of replacing it with the Avalon or even asking for a GM B-body version and doing a move similar to what they did briefly in Australia with the Toyota Lexcen who was a rebadged Holden Commodore in the early 1990s

[Rocket 88]

Originally Posted by member12

Saturn has chosen not to compete in the small car market for so long. The new Astra doesn't get the mileage that it should, and it's price is going to hurt it.

Saturn, in my opinion, needs a sub-Astra car with a great price and great fuel economy.

Completely Agree.

Originally Posted by logansowner

I know where I can buy a Porsche and a Mercedes, but a Saturn, nope.

So not only does Saturn need competitive cars, they need cars that are so good you go looking for a dealership.

Sorry for saying this a thousand times, but isn't it amazing that a company with too many dealerships for most of it's 8 divisions has a shortage for Saturn? And then decides to consolidate Cadillac-Saab-Hummer and Buick-Ponitac-GMC and leaves Saturn on it's own. WTF?

On the other hand, maybe they'll axe Hummer and we'll have just Cadillac-Saab. Doesn't Saturn-Saab make more sense?

[blank disk]

Personally, I am thinking about buying a small car. But I don't want to sell my big SUV. I suspect many others are doing the same.

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

With the new 33 MPG Aura, sales should head back in the positive direction. Keyword: SHOULD.

The Aura's a nice car. Not sure why it hasn't caught on. Maybe lack of advertising? I hate to say it but Saturn is looking a lot like Oldsmobile before they got the ax-- nice lineup that just doesn't seem to sell.

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by blank disk

Personally, I am thinking about buying a small car. But I don't want to sell my big SUV. I suspect many others are doing the same.

I would be more likely to consider a small car now, but I just bought my Xterra a year and a half ago. Since I live in the city, I really don't drive enough for it to matter. I've put only 1500 miles on in the past 3 months. Long trips are getting pretty expensive though. And I enjoy the capabilities of my vehicle, like hauling stuff from Home Depot, going mountain biking, off-roading, camping, etc.

[gardnet1]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

You're right about Ford's move (great idea) forcing GM's hand and GM has a European lineup as good as Fords except for the small van (the current Combo is OLD).

Think GM needs to re-think the lower rental sales idea at least on outgoing models and definately ones that are getting name changes, GM needs cash and even rental sales make money - money that can be used to "pull forward" some of GM's great new models.

The advantage for Ford here is that they will be reconfiguring plants and assembling the Euro-vehicles on US soil which dampens the currency issues. Heck they may even start exporting to Europe if the dollar gets any weaker.

GM Saturn are taking the big hit on currency by importing their cars from Europe.

[racy]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Hmmm, some people will take the usual stance with this news by suggesting that Saturn be sold off or simply be closed. Others within General Motors will take the usual approach and either cut factory workers or lower-level salaried positions to compensate for the negative impact that Saturn is having on GM's balance sheet.

I say try a new approach: take the people at the top who were handed a relatively new brand with relatively new dealerships and a whole new lineup who still were not able to manage to just maintain share and show them the door. Time to find more inspired divisional managers who understand what Saturn is and how to tell consumers Saturn's story in a way that will compel consumers to buy Saturns. Sorry, Jill, you've had since 2005, and you're just not cutting it.

My guess is GM will promote Jill to head of North America and move another marketing exec at Saturn to head the Division. You know, since both are doing such stellar jobs.

God, I should have gotten an MBA and worked for American enterprise. 9:00 am - 4:30 pm, zero accountability, zero vision, zero stress, zero experience, and a high six figure salary with a severance package. You can't make this **** up!

This post makes me sick - because it is absolutely correct on every point. We have the same promotion policy where I work as well: The leaders of a $100 million project get promoted, while the workers get fired.

[RangeRover]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

What have they produced?

Lower market share and profits.

What do they do?

Shutdown a plant with one of the highest productivity/quality levels in the WORLD?!?!?!?!

MOST workers at GM plants work hard also and build a quality product even if the GM management makes poor choices with content and marketing that cost sales and profits.

Every companies top managers work hard, it is time GM's top management start producing results.

Sorry if this is harsh, but I am tired of GM management's refusal to listen to customers and treat it's hard working employees (engineers, assembly line and research) like they are easily replaced, but top management can do no wrong - or take any blame.

To me cutting dealers, plants and possibly brands is an indication of a management that is incapable of dealing problems with even when they have the talent available to them to win.

In football they fire the coach when they do not win and NFL coaches put more than 80 hours a week most of the year - it works in the NFL.

GM has the talent in the hourly workforce and the recent union agreement will keep GM competitive in the future, time for GM management to make some major changes in the way they approach market problems.

Stop the cut,cut,cut and start to build,build,build confidence within GM and it's dealers and produce vehicles customers want. Standard MBA solutions will not work here, throw out the charts and spreadsheets and start thinking outside the box. Time for a paradigm shift.

Why the MBA bashing? What is a standard MBA solution? I have an MBA and I must have missed that class. It is a shame that people like to over generalize.

I feel for people at the plant that lose there jobs. Really, I do. However, white collar workers get screwed EVERYDAY and no body cares about that. All they get is blame and more work but they suck it up and move on.

The bottom line is that Upper Management needs Plant workers and Plant Workers need Upper Management. It is true that every companies top managers work hard but you have to put performance into context. I guess you think that Exxon's top managers are better than GM's just because they are going through a good cycle and "performing".

You will be hard pressed to find any industry that is as complex and competitive as automotive. The Big 3 have many structural problems that need to be fixed in order to make Product. The traditional UAW structure was/is one of those problems.

I am all for getting rid of bad top management. However, I won't jump on the band wagon to axe people for no reason.

[WishIhadatruck]

Originally Posted by gardnet1

The advantage for Ford here is that they will be reconfiguring plants and assembling the Euro-vehicles on US soil which dampens the currency issues. Heck they may even start exporting to Europe if the dollar gets any weaker.

GM Saturn are taking the big hit on currency by importing their cars from Europe.

I don't see the advantage for Ford you're talking about. You sound like Saturn is importing multiple models from Europe and Ford is making European models here in North America. I don't thing Ford is even selling a European model here yet and Saturn only imports the Astra and that is only temporary for this model cycle. They actually export the Sky to Europe already. I think down the road they will both be doing the same thing.

The importing of the Astra is a big problem currently however which you are correct on. The Astra is poorly advertised if you ask me. However, the biggest reason it is doing poorly, in my opinion, is that it is too expensive and the gas mileage is not what was expected. I was expecting a lot more. I expected class leading fuel economy since I figured that the Cobalt couldn't do it due to a bigger than normal engine size for the class. With the 1.8L I was expecting fuel economy as good as the Civic/Corolla. Unfortunately it is no better or worse than the Cobalt and the Cobalt is getting better and better. The Astra is nice looking inside and out but is not worth the money to most people. They need a modern version of the original SL/SC cars. They were reliable, fuel efficient, and sporty looking. The MCE made them boring looking and then they were replaced with the even worse Ion and now have been replaced with an overpriced import.

[uvaeeman]

Originally Posted by Ming

Saturn. General Motors has revitalized this division's entire lineup, with enticing new right-size vehicles like the Outlook and Vue crossovers and the Aura sedan. But buyers aren't, well, buying it. Sales are down 20 percent.

Damn you, Saturn!

It's like some executards one day said, "Hey, lets spend a ton of money on product & advertising to try to turn this alternative econo-brand into a full lineup! Pontiac-Buick-GMC need major work too, but we'll ignore them for now except for throwing them a couple bones (Enclave, G8) that will get creamed if gas prices go up."

I know, I know, I'm being an armchair CEO. But I seriously think that they could have seen this coming! P-B-G withering, whether or not the Saturn play really worked, was not a good plan.