The Biggest Losers @ $4.00

[PeterPuck]

Anyhow, Saturn shouldn't be on that list.

The low sales compared to last year have nothing to do with $4.00 gasoline and everything to do with the discontinuation of the ION -- in spite of the vehicle's shortcomings (though it had a class-leading drivetrain at the time of introduction), Americans seemed to be buying it. It was low-priced, quirky, and had polymer panels -- things that Saturn is supposed to be.

GM listened to the media and car enthusiasts, and came out with the Astra -- a massive flop. Meanwhile, Ford ignored the media and car enthusiasts, and came out with the reheated Focus -- a massive success.

There's a lesson to be learned here. Ignore the advice of people who would never buy the vehicle anyhow.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Hmmm, some people will take the usual stance with this news by suggesting that Saturn be sold off or simply be closed. Others within General Motors will take the usual approach and either cut factory workers or lower-level salaried positions to compensate for the negative impact that Saturn is having on GM's balance sheet.

I say try a new approach: take the people at the top who were handed a relatively new brand with relatively new dealerships and a whole new lineup who still were not able to manage to just maintain share and show them the door. Time to find more inspired divisional managers who understand what Saturn is and how to tell consumers Saturn's story in a way that will compel consumers to buy Saturns. Sorry, Jill, you've had since 2005, and you're just not cutting it.

My guess is GM will promote Jill to head of North America and move another marketing exec at Saturn to head the Division. You know, since both are doing such stellar jobs.

God, I should have gotten an MBA and worked for American enterprise. 9:00 am - 4:30 pm, zero accountability, zero vision, zero stress, zero experience, and a high six figure salary with a severance package. You can't make this **** up!

Right on the money.

It is time for GM to make the cuts where they should have started years ago - at the top. GM should cut its top management by at least 25% and for every plant that is shut down there should be a reduction of top management by a similar percentage - bet the closing plants left and right will not be as attractive when GM managers in Detroit know that they will be going when the plants do. Same thing with dealership closings - every one closed means a few less managers since you don't need them anymore. When GM's management shrinks by 50% it will be in better shape and more able to make changes needed to keep up with Toyota, and would put it's percentage of managers more in line with Toyota.

This is a cost and quantity difference GM has vs Toyota few talk about, Toyota has fewer administrative personnel than GM but more technical with fewer "managers" per sale that GM - get THIS number in line then GM will prosper.

Toyota has four brands in the U.S. market and no doubt within 10 years will add more and expand it's dealer presence while increasing market share and profits by double digit percentages - in the meantime GM will keep cutting in all the wrong places and market share and profits will continue the current free fall.

Time for GM to take a dramatically different approach to it's U.S. market problems.

[slowinthefastlane]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Ummm...no.
Let's never, ever, consider this again.

Why not? Every Toyota customer can have their needs met by either Toyota or Lexus. Sure, there's Scion, but even that's struggling despite their gas-sipping fleet.

[Motownr]

Ford's new plan to saturate the Ford brand with smaller, Euro-shared platforms is going to up the pressure on GM to do something about their overlap of brands.

To be fair to both GM and Chrysler, some loss of volume has been due to the decision to reduce the allocation to daily rental. For the 300 in particular, it's noticeable. I spoke with the manager of a Dollar office recently, and he stated that getting cars from Chrysler was getting really tough.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Motownr

Ford's new plan to saturate the Ford brand with smaller, Euro-shared platforms is going to up the pressure on GM to do something about their overlap of brands.

To be fair to both GM and Chrysler, some loss of volume has been due to the decision to reduce the allocation to daily rental. For the 300 in particular, it's noticeable. I spoke with the manager of a Dollar office recently, and he stated that getting cars from Chrysler was getting really tough.

You're right about Ford's move (great idea) forcing GM's hand and GM has a European lineup as good as Fords except for the small van (the current Combo is OLD).

Think GM needs to re-think the lower rental sales idea at least on outgoing models and definately ones that are getting name changes, GM needs cash and even rental sales make money - money that can be used to "pull forward" some of GM's great new models.

[Xenon]

Originally Posted by Patate

Avalon shouldn't be there as well. It's a lame excuse to justify that this overpriced POS is not selling well. Ford Taurus increased, mainly because SUV buyers consider it as economical. It's supposed to be the same with the Avalon, yet it's not.

The Avalon was also introduecd in 2004, so I think its more of the car being a bit old for its segement as opposed to being a bad veichle.

[rumble bee]

That thing got a Hemi? Better hope not. The big V-8 engine was a hit back when gas was $1.50

WTF? The HEMI is still a hit, just not in the Jeep Comander. With the 2009 redesign of the Dodge Ram, The HEMI will have class leading highway mileage, over GM, Ford, and Toyota. It will be interesting to see if this quote holds true a year from now.

Also, the Titan needs to be axed. I liked the nissan line-up before they got the Titan. They did add the Versa which was a good move, but the Titan/Armada have been nothing but token sales at best, and never have either truck sold well. Nissan also needs to get back to their roots and axe the Titan/Armada( IMO the CVT, but thats a different story ) and make a solid Versa, and Sentra, with competitive Altimas and Maximas. Focus on the Pathfinder and Frontier more then producing the Titan mess that is never going to sale in vast numbers in the USA

[hotrod1949]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

Right on the money.

It is time for GM to make the cuts where they should have started years ago - at the top. GM should cut its top management by at least 25% and for every plant that is shut down there should be a reduction of top management by a similar percentage - bet the closing plants left and right will not be as attractive when GM managers in Detroit know that they will be going when the plants do. Same thing with dealership closings - every one closed means a few less managers since you don't need them anymore. When GM's management shrinks by 50% it will be in better shape and more able to make changes needed to keep up with Toyota, and would put it's percentage of managers more in line with Toyota.

This is a cost and quantity difference GM has vs Toyota few talk about, Toyota has fewer administrative personnel than GM but more technical with fewer "managers" per sale that GM - get THIS number in line then GM will prosper.


Time for GM to take a dramatically different approach to it's U.S. market problems.

Excellent, I have been arguing this point for years. The Detroit 3 like to model their production side after the lean Japanese style, but not the white collar side. The whole corporation needs to be right sized, not just the production side. There is a massive cultural difference between NA management and Japanese management, and a big part of it is accountibility/responsibility.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

My guess is GM will promote Jill to head of North America and move another marketing exec at Saturn to head the Division. You know, since both are doing such stellar jobs.

God, I should have gotten an MBA and worked for American enterprise. 9:00 am - 4:30 pm, zero accountability, zero vision, zero stress, zero experience, and a high six figure salary with a severance package. You can't make this **** up!

Wow... seriously?

Anyone in upper management with an MBA works, at a minimum, 60 hours per week, usually works Saturdays, and has more stress than you'd believe possible.

Anyone in the C-suite put in a minimum of 80 hours per week.

It angers me insanely when people suggest people in upper management don't work for their money.

[zete]

Nissan still sells Titans?

And is the drop off in Avalons due to $4 gas or is the Avalon demographic keeling over to quickly. I don't know anyone under 70 who owns one or wants one.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Wow... seriously?

Anyone in upper management with an MBA works, at a minimum, 60 hours per week, usually works Saturdays, and has more stress than you'd believe possible.

Anyone in the C-suite put in a minimum of 80 hours per week.

It angers me insanely when people suggest people in upper management don't work for their money.

What have they produced?

Lower market share and profits.

What do they do?

Shutdown a plant with one of the highest productivity/quality levels in the WORLD?!?!?!?!

MOST workers at GM plants work hard also and build a quality product even if the GM management makes poor choices with content and marketing that cost sales and profits.

Every companies top managers work hard, it is time GM's top management start producing results.

Sorry if this is harsh, but I am tired of GM management's refusal to listen to customers and treat it's hard working employees (engineers, assembly line and research) like they are easily replaced, but top management can do no wrong - or take any blame.

To me cutting dealers, plants and possibly brands is an indication of a management that is incapable of dealing problems with even when they have the talent available to them to win.

In football they fire the coach when they do not win and NFL coaches put more than 80 hours a week most of the year - it works in the NFL.

GM has the talent in the hourly workforce and the recent union agreement will keep GM competitive in the future, time for GM management to make some major changes in the way they approach market problems.

Stop the cut,cut,cut and start to build,build,build confidence within GM and it's dealers and produce vehicles customers want. Standard MBA solutions will not work here, throw out the charts and spreadsheets and start thinking outside the box. Time for a paradigm shift.

[logansowner]

Originally Posted by PeterPuck

Saturn sold 6,822 Ions last May. That's a big chunk.

The slow Astra sales are a little worrying, though. I think the main buyers are European ex-pats who know how popular the car is in Europe.

My mother-in-law was looking at one, and she wondered why the price was so high -- "It's just a small stupid car, why so much?" were her words I believe...

A co-worker was also looking at one, and wouldn't even look twice because of the price.

I do have a British friend who bought one -- he loves it. He says they beat the crap out of the Focus in Europe...

I think Saturn is set up ok, just that nobody knows about it. Hell, if I want to go buy a Sky, I don't even know where to find a Saturn dealership. I know where I can buy a Porsche and a Mercedes, but a Saturn, nope.

So not only does Saturn need competitive cars, they need cars that are so good you go looking for a dealership.

[Bvonscott]

Originally Posted by Mikkoo

Little doubt why GM is thinking of unloading Hummer. I'm a bit
perplexed however with Saturn sales being down 20%. It has
one of the freshest lineups off all the GM lines.

I noticed in the SF Bay Area, the lowest prices for regular are
now $4.40 per gallon. Won't be long until the most expensive
places to buy gasoline will hit $5.00 per gallon. At that point
GM won't be able to give a Hummer away.

Lowest here is already $4.50 at AM/PM and Chevron's are over $5. Insanity.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

What have they produced?

Lower market share and profits.

What do they do?

Shutdown a plant with one of the highest productivity/quality levels in the WORLD?!?!?!?!

MOST workers at GM plants work hard also and build a quality product even if the GM management makes poor choices with content and marketing that cost sales and profits.

Every companies top managers work hard, it is time GM's top management start producing results.

Sorry if this is harsh, but I am tired of GM management's refusal to listen to customers and treat it's hard working employees (engineers, assembly line and research) like they are easily replaced, but top management can do no wrong - or take any blame.

To me cutting dealers, plants and possibly brands is an indication of a management that is incapable of dealing problems with even when they have the talent available to them to win.

In football they fire the coach when they do not win and NFL coaches put more than 80 hours a week most of the year - it works in the NFL.

GM has the talent in the hourly workforce and the recent union agreement will keep GM competitive in the future, time for GM management to make some major changes in the way they approach market problems.

Stop the cut,cut,cut and start to build,build,build confidence within GM and it's dealers and produce vehicles customers want. Standard MBA solutions will not work here, throw out the charts and spreadsheets and start thinking outside the box. Time for a paradigm shift.

Management gets cut. You just don't hear about it. Other than big name executives how many senior manger and director level personally can you name? Hell you probably can't even name the VP's. These are the people who get canned when things go wrong, because on a day to day level they are the ones making decisions. Outside of generic strategic goals executives don't get involved in the specifics unless they have to. They are busy trying to mange the company as a whole.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by zete

And is the drop off in Avalons due to $4 gas or is the Avalon demographic keeling over to quickly. I don't know anyone under 70 who owns one or wants one.

Lots of questions like that.

Don't know how this reporter missed so much - given what was covered here are a few that at least warrant mention, or stronger discussion, - or more.


................................TOYOTA MAY 2008......................................

.......................----- CURRENT MONTH -- -- ------- CALENDAR YEAR TO DATE --
.................................................. ................DSR %............................................ DSR %
...............................2008.......... 2007........... CHG...... .....2008........... 2007..........CHG
AVALON.................... 4,269......... 6,435....... -36.1........ ....21,273.... ...31,861...... -34.3
PRIUS...... ...............15,011........24,009....... -39.8.............79,675.......76,747......... 2.2

SCION tC...................5,166........ .6,615........ -24.8...... ......19,575..... ..27,041...... -28.7

RAV4.................. ......14,917.......16,547....... -13.2..............61,919.... ..72,447 ........-15.9
FJ CRUISER..................2,404........ 4,639....... -50.1..............14,961.... ..25,271 ........-41.7
4RUNNER.....................4,286.........6,908........-40.3...............24,282... ...37,938 .......-37.0

TUNDRA.....................12,144........ 17,727......-34.0.............66,278........61,113.......... 6.8

************************************************** *****************************************

LEXUS

ES........................... 6,831........... 8,572..... -23.3...... .......27,430..... 33,166...... -18.6
LS........................... 2,115........... 3,196.. ...-36.3..............10,029..... 14,941...... -33.9
SC............................. 216.............. 410..... -49.3......... ......1,076...... 1,705...... -37.9
GS........................... 1,708........... 2,043..... -19.5.............. 7,846....... 9,147...... -15.6

GX............................ 1,394.......... 1,842.... -27.1............. 7,904..........8,658........-10.1
RX.............................8,082.......... 9,798.... -20.6........... 36,690.........39,892 ........-9.5


************************************************** *******************************************