All Small Cars Are Not Created Equal

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by bigdav160

Funny how I saw a local dealer TV advertisement this morning that said they had 40, yes forty, Pruis's on the lot.

Must be a local thing

They were used. They were Fleet turn-ins after 6-9 months of service. The auctions are being flooded now with Hertz and Enterprise turn-ins because since the dealers don't have any new ones they are outbidding each other for low-mileage same-year USED ones.

Example, on the E C a $22000 MSRP vehicle that say Enterprise bought for $20000 last Nov hits the auction block in May/June during the shortage and gets bid up to $24500!!!

This is a gold mine for the rental companies.
Buy at a discount...
Put in service and collect rental fees for 9 months...
Sell at a $4500 profit above purchase price...

[fp115]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

They were used. They were Fleet turn-ins after 6-9 months of service. The auctions are being flooded now with Hertz and Enterprise turn-ins because since the dealers don't have any new ones they are outbidding each other for low-mileage same-year USED ones.

Example, on the E C a $22000 MSRP vehicle that say Enterprise bought for $20000 last Nov hits the auction block in May/June during the shortage and gets bid up to $24500!!!

This is a gold mine for the rental companies.
Buy at a discount...
Put in service and collect rental fees for 9 months...
Sell at a $4500 profit above purchase price...

Used ones are just about the same price as new ones because it requires up to $10k of repairs and bringing the car back in perfect working order after the purchase of the car.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by fp115

Used ones are just about the same price as new ones because it requires up to $10k of repairs and bringing the car back in perfect working order after the purchase of the car.

Yuk, yuk... Obviously you must be part of GM management. This has been their view since forever.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Yuk, yuk... Obviously you must be part of GM management. This has been their view since forever.

Uh what? Its been all over the newspapers lately urging people not to buy a Prius for more than 100k miles or not to buy them used. They were also showing the cost of owning the Prius.

The cost of a cell isn't so much I believe its a few hundred dollars, but many that don't drive it properly end up paying at least $7.5k to replace it all. Don't believe me, have a look around. Even Consumer Reports are saying the same thing.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by fp115

Uh what? Its been all over the newspapers lately urging people not to buy a Prius for more than 100k miles or not to buy them used. They were also showing the cost of owning the Prius.

The cost of a cell isn't so much I believe its a few hundred dollars, but many that don't drive it properly end up paying at least $7.5k to replace it all. Don't believe me, have a look around. Even Consumer Reports are saying the same thing.

This is false...both statements are entirely false. When you show actual factual evidence then you might be believed. As to your reference to Consumer Reports ... well you are just making that up. In fact.. in the current survey the Prius is the No 1 most reliable family vehicle in NA now. You see I have all the pertinent data....you're making it up as you type.

Here's a hint....wake up call to those that have been Rip Van Winkling for the last 10 years...GM and Ford and VW and Honda are all scrambling to get more and more hybrids on the road. Do you seriously think that they are doing this with the expectation that these will cost their customers beaucoup bucks.

Please don't make up stuff in an adult forum. You appear to be an junior high schooler.

Here I'll help you out of the hole you've dug for yourself....http://www.pluginamerica.org/images/...ek_13feb06.pdf

see point No 2.

This is from the US Fed Govt which is in the process of testing all hybrids on the road...http://avt.inel.gov/hev.shtml.

Its protocol is to test the hybrids in realworld situations for 160,000 miles. At this time no hybrid tested has shown any failure in the hybrid systems. Most even get somewhat better results at 160,000 miles than they did when they were new ( break-in ).

[ptviperz]

I saw an article somewhere about a taxi service using Prius' and they had to replace the battery packs.......at 360,000 miles

edit: found it

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/Toyot...50,000-km.html

or

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/t...-battery-myth/

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

They were used. They were Fleet turn-ins after 6-9 months of service. The auctions are being flooded now with Hertz and Enterprise turn-ins -

Interesting.

"Flooded".

************

And then .........

The obvious implication of previous, 'unrecognized' (large?) fleet sales to car rental companies.

Also, the media ministorm about increased hybrid rental availability - including the Prius - supposedly.

Well, no wonder they cut 'battery' production - or really, this would again, possibly 'help' explain that - as a correct longterm decision.

Also nicely avoids incentive to look further into it, I think.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by ptviperz

I saw an article somewhere about a taxi service using Prius' and they had to replace the battery packs.......at 360,000 miles

edit: found it

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/Toyot...50,000-km.html

or

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/t...-battery-myth/

Find the data on Prius batteries 8 -12 years old - age is a larger factor than mileage - especially mileage racked up real fast.

Also the ones who didn't quite make it - but were unfortunately out of warranty.

Make sure you include the whole story on pricing - historically speaking.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

This is from the US Fed Govt which is in the process of testing all hybrids on the road...http://avt.inel.gov/hev.shtml.

Hmmmm, that's a most seriously misleading job of cherry pickin' the 'Government' 'data' doncha' think ?

If the other, contradictory to your representation stuff is 'gone' don't worry, I have it somewhere.

Shouldn't we also point out that the '00 -'03s with their slightly different and slightly larger battery pack have in the past and still do today have a higher 'replacement cost' than the '04s forward ?

Also, what do you think about the concept of rebuilt liquid cooled inverters - to save a couple of thou ?

You do realize that with the recent spat of energy related price increases the real costs of all these batteries has just gone up - again ?

[fp115]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

This is false...both statements are entirely false. When you show actual factual evidence then you might be believed. As to your reference to Consumer Reports ... well you are just making that up. In fact.. in the current survey the Prius is the No 1 most reliable family vehicle in NA now. You see I have all the pertinent data....you're making it up as you type.

Here's a hint....wake up call to those that have been Rip Van Winkling for the last 10 years...GM and Ford and VW and Honda are all scrambling to get more and more hybrids on the road. Do you seriously think that they are doing this with the expectation that these will cost their customers beaucoup bucks.

Please don't make up stuff in an adult forum. You appear to be an junior high schooler.

Here I'll help you out of the hole you've dug for yourself....http://www.pluginamerica.org/images/...ek_13feb06.pdf

see point No 2.

This is from the US Fed Govt which is in the process of testing all hybrids on the road...http://avt.inel.gov/hev.shtml.

Its protocol is to test the hybrids in realworld situations for 160,000 miles. At this time no hybrid tested has shown any failure in the hybrid systems. Most even get somewhat better results at 160,000 miles than they did when they were new ( break-in ).

Oops meant Consumer Affairs.

Top 10 worst used cars:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06...d-cars-list-f/

Have a look at all the current battery issues with Prius:
http://www.calcars.org/PriusPlusConf...s040817rdg.pdf

Look at all the users with battery issues on their Prius:
http://www.hybridcars.com/forums/pri...tery-t254.html

Scary Story on used Priuses.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...rius_used.html

[Bigbee60]

Originally Posted by fp115

Used ones are just about the same price as new ones because it requires up to $10k of repairs and bringing the car back in perfect working order after the purchase of the car.

Hertz made a public comment in one of their SEC filings that the cost to re-market their Green fleet cars is comparable to their regular rentals at rental end. I can't find it on Edgar, but it was in their earnings call discussion for either year end 2007 or Q1 2008.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Bigbee60

Hertz made a public comment in one of their SEC filings that the cost to re-market their Green fleet cars is comparable to their regular rentals at rental end. I can't find it on Edgar, but it was in their earnings call discussion for either year end 2007 or Q1 2008.

Usually it will be a charge associated with the user buying the vehicle. Though I am not aware of any other hybrid using battery packs such as the ones found in the Prius (yet).

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by fp115

Oops meant Consumer Affairs.

Top 10 worst used cars:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06...d-cars-list-f/

Have a look at all the current battery issues with Prius:
http://www.calcars.org/PriusPlusConf...s040817rdg.pdf

Look at all the users with battery issues on their Prius:
http://www.hybridcars.com/forums/pri...tery-t254.html

Scary Story on used Priuses.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...rius_used.html

Yep you fell for the common error that a lot of the noobs to the internet fall for. Consumer Affairs IS NOT Consumer Union which is the producer of Consumer Reports.

Consumer Affairs is a site created by a group of scum-sucking class-action-lawyers to try to trick the noobs into thinking that it is CR. None of the data on the site is true or accurate or even verified. They hate all large businesses like Toyota and GM and Ford and Pfizer and...whatever. As long as that company has deep pockets it will try to gather complaints like those you read to see if it can find a way to file a class action suit and make money for the lawyers that own it. You yourself, fp115, could spend your entire day posting 'reports' on Consumer Affairs about any product you wanted. I could do the same on any product I wanted. Do a search on GM products or Ford products or drugs or toys or anything else there. None of it is backed by any facts. ZERO.

In fact if there were any issue like CA reports then they'd be reported to the Feds at NHTSA. You should go to the real source try to find any data on the NHTSA website concerning any of the 'problems' found on CA's website.

Don't worry you are not the first to be duped by them. It's a scam to attract angry people. Again you can post anything you want on that site. Make up anything your imagination can consider. They then will ask you to agree to be contacted by a lawyer to see if your 'case' has any merit for a future class-action suit.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Yep you fell for the common error that a lot of the noobs to the internet fall for. Consumer Affairs IS NOT Consumer Union which is the producer of Consumer Reports.

Consumer Affairs is a site created by a group of scum-sucking class-action-lawyers to try to trick the noobs into thinking that it is CR. None of the data on the site is true or accurate or even verified. You yourself, fp115, could spend your entire day posting 'reports' on Consumer Affairs about any product you wanted. I could do the same on any product I wanted. Do a search on GM products or Ford products or drugs or toys or anything else there. None of it is backed by any facts. ZERO.

In fact if you take it to the real source try to find any data on the NHTSA website concerning any of the 'problems' found on CA's website.

Don't worry you are not the first to be duped by them. It's a scam to attract angry people. Again you can post anything you want on that site. Make up anything your imagination can consider. They then will ask you to agree to be contacted by a lawyer to see if your 'case' has any merit for a future class-action suit.

Well even out of that list there are other threads and other people that post direct claims that isn't Consumer Affairs. I will see if I can find the article that appeared in the paper regarding the Prius and the cost of buying a used one that is at least 3 years old.

[Wolfman01]

Originally Posted by fp115

Well even out of that list there are other threads and other people that post direct claims that isn't Consumer Affairs. I will see if I can find the article that appeared in the paper regarding the Prius and the cost of buying a used one that is at least 3 years old.

I owned an '03 Prius. I bought the last one left to be sold anywhere in the southern sales region, as the '04's were starting to trickle in to their long waiting lists and price gouging. That care was THE single LEAST expensive vehicle to own out of anything that I've driven, except for the Impala, which hasn't been on the road long enough to need anything serviced. While theere are certainly battery failures in the Prius, they are very few and far between. The Toyota hybrid system is so wickedly simple, that there is precious litte in it to fail. NiMh batteries weren't new tech, when they were put into service for vehicles either. While nobody is going to state that Toyota has a zero failure rate, you'll find examples of massive failures to be very few and far between for the Prius of any model iteration. Toyota betted the farm on HSD, and they keep a VERY tight watch on the quality of that system - even at the expense apparently, of some of their other products.