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30 Day Strike = Four Billion Dollar Loss and GM Bankruptcy?

10K views 119 replies 72 participants last post by  drew630 
#1 ·
GM can handle short strike
Analysts call brief walkout costly, but manageable
Christine Tierney and Eric Morath / The Detroit News



General Motors Corp.'s stock dipped slightly Monday as most investors and auto industry experts bet the United Auto Workers' strike would be short-lived and would not derail the automaker's recovery.

It's unimaginable that it would be a long strike -- absolutely unimaginable," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. "The stakes are so high."

Although a strike would be costly, industry experts say GM could weather a one- or two-week production halt without too much damage to its balance sheet.

In addition, a recent slowdown in demand for cars and trucks means GM's inventory will last longer. GM already planned to cut production 10 percent in the fourth quarter.

(more at link) http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070925/AUTO01/709250358/1148
 
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#3 ·
As long as they don't have to pay workers for this period, this can be actually a breath of fresh air... A number of popular models are actually not being made by UAW, and I am not sure whether the strike includes NUMMI and CAMI. I guess GM can just sit and wait until the workers realize they need to eat.
 
#4 ·
This strike will certainly help the Union's ability to organize the transplants. Guys in Kentucky that are being paid well and receiving nice bonuses would love to be toting picket signs instead, making next to nothing.

The rocket scientists from the UAW may just push GM to declare bankruptcy, then the house cleaning really begins...ala Delphi.
 
#5 ·
Does anyone know which GM vehicles are still being produced? I understand the Moraine TB/Envoy plant is non-UAW and of course the Aveo imports should continue. Vibe still alive? Canadian production will start running out of parts later today. How long can HHR's be produced in Mexico? Are there any others? The G8, Ute and Astra can't get here soon enough.
 
#7 ·
I'd be wary about buying any GM product produced over the last month, or for the first few months after (if?) the UAW gets back to work. I can imagine a lot of the union types being upset about any changes to the contract, and purposefully making errors in assembling the cars. Maybe a few bolts missing from the frame, or wires cut under the dashboard, or badly shimmed front suspension. I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past the UAW to do this. I think 2008 model year GM cars could be known as the "stike year vehicles" and have many more problems and recalls than other years. This is all GM needs with the new Malibu and CTS going on line, and a much more competetive marketplace. I'm not going anywhere near a GM lot for at least a year - I can't afford to pay the price for the UAW's anger and resentment.
 
#8 ·
mobyss said:
I'd be wary about buying any GM product produced over the last month, or for the first few months after (if?) the UAW gets back to work. I can imagine a lot of the union types being upset about any changes to the contract, and purposefully making errors in assembling the cars. Maybe a few bolts missing from the frame, or wires cut under the dashboard, or badly shimmed front suspension. I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past the UAW to do this. I think 2008 model year GM cars could be known as the "stike year vehicles" and have many more problems and recalls than other years. This is all GM needs with the new Malibu and CTS going on line, and a much more competetive marketplace. I'm not going anywhere near a GM lot for at least a year - I can't afford to pay the price for the UAW's anger and resentment.
WOW...do you actually believe that? Why would a worker risk their job to "get back" at GM? It would easily be traceable.
 
#9 ·
Chapter 11 could be GM's salvation. It would allow them to get rid of the redundant Buick/Pontiac/GMC thing w/o massive compensation to the dealers of the moribund franchises. Then GM can focus on their core brands Chevy/Cadillac.

We chide the UAW for acting like it's 1960, but GM - with like 7 domestic brands or whatever it is - still thinks it's 1960 in a lot of ways too...
 
#10 ·
windvale said:
Chapter 11 could be GM's salvation. It would allow them to get rid of the redundant Buick/Pontiac/GMC thing w/o massive compensation to the dealers of the moribund franchises. Then GM can focus on their core brands Chevy/Cadillac.

We chide the UAW for acting like it's 1960, but GM - with like 7 domestic brands or whatever it is - still thinks it's 1960 in a lot of ways too...
While bankruptcy might help, getting rid of about half (I'm guessing) of GM's NA sales and expecting them to switch to Chevy or Cadillac doesn't seem very safe to me.
 
#11 · (Edited)
mobyss said:
I'd be wary about buying any GM product produced over the last month, or for the first few months after (if?) the UAW gets back to work. I can imagine a lot of the union types being upset about any changes to the contract, and purposefully making errors in assembling the cars. Maybe a few bolts missing from the frame, or wires cut under the dashboard, or badly shimmed front suspension. I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past the UAW to do this. I think 2008 model year GM cars could be known as the "stike year vehicles" and have many more problems and recalls than other years. This is all GM needs with the new Malibu and CTS going on line, and a much more competetive marketplace. I'm not going anywhere near a GM lot for at least a year - I can't afford to pay the price for the UAW's anger and resentment.
Thanks for getting a totally bs rumor started. If anything the vehicles made post strike will be of the highest quality possible. All vehicles will go through the same quality checks as the did before the strike if not more. At our plant they run them through a test on a dyno (not for checking power) and check the on board diagnostic system before they leave the plant. In this same area they set the alignment and the it is a computerized system so if the vehicle is not able to set to specifications they will send to to a repair area and they will fix what is wrong and then it will be retested before they send it on. Throughout the plant there are verification areas where harness connections are checked and suspension bolts are checked to see if they are all there and shot. The guns used to shoot the most important bolts involving safety items are on a torque monitoring system and if they dont reach full torque it will shut the line down to repair the item. Believe me quality will be closely monitored and people will be fired if they intentionally are sabotaging the vehicles and if the strike last any length of time no one will be able to afford to fool around. They also do quality audits out back once the vehicles are done and they check every little thing and if there is a problem they will find out why.
 
#12 ·
Don't worry everybody.... let the UAW hold their breath as long as they want..... eventually they'll turn blue, pass out and start breathing again..... and they'll realize how foolish this whole things was.

Ok, maybe THEY won't realize but the rest of the country will....
 
#14 ·
mike's 01ws6 said:
Thanks for getting a totally bs rumor started. If anything the vehicles made post strike will be of the highest quality possible.
Perhaps that would be the case today, but mobyss' fears are not without historical precedent.

Sabotage at General Motors' Van Nuys Assembly Plant, 1975–83
Craig A. Zabala

Craig Zabala is Assistant Professor of Management at the School of Management, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, New York.

Sabotage is an aspect of industrial behaviour which is both important and under-researched. This case study in a UAW-organised plant is drawn from the author's experience. He suggests that the scope and incidence of sabotage may be much higher than some labour process studies suggest.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1468-2338.1989.tb00048.x

In the winter and spring of 1971-72, under the pressure of increased workloads, workers began to pass cars down the line with the odd bolt or minor part missing. The movement rapidly gained momentum. In one case a car came down the line with the body shelf neatly covering a pile of unassembled parts. Alvin B. Anderson, Manager of Lordstown, stated 'we've had cases of engine blocks passing 40 men without them doing their work.' (Cleveland Plain Dealer, January 23,1972)

At this stage workers left out one car in 10, or one car in 20.This meant a reduction of 5 or 10 cars per hour. Fortunately the situation is not quite as simple as that, for what we have described assumes that all workers are co-operative enough to pick the same vehicle not to complete their operation on. Any reasonable well-run campaign should leave at least 80% of cars incomplete. And that's not counting those which have had secondary operations completed when the primary job isn't completed, which of course means that the 'completed' job has to be taken to pieces again.

The situation developed rapidly. The company started suspending and disciplining men right and left and generally tightening up. Many suspected that the company was attempting to provoke a strike to lance the boil (see UAW Local 1112 leaflet, dated January 18, 1972). The struggle inside the plant escalated. Soon Time magazine was alleging (February 7, 1972) that ...

'somebody deliberately set fire to an assembly line control-box shed, causing the line to shut down. Autos regularly roll of the line with slit upholstery, scratched paint, dented bodies, bent gear-shift levers, cut ignition wires, and loose or missing bolts. In some cars. the trunk key is broken off right in the lock, thereby jamming it. The plant's repair ht has space for 2.000 ant its. but often becomes too crowded to accept more. When that happens, as it did last week, the assembly line is stopped and the workers are sent home, payless.'
Anderson, GM's Lordstown manager, gave some further examples of sabotage (The Times, March 1 6, 1 972) such as caving-in of radios, scratching of instruments in the instrument panels - - - tearing glove-box doors, etc.'(14)

But this management-inspired hysteria was not the whole story. There was no doubt that they were boosting the sabotage' aspect of the struggle inside the plant. for public relations purposes. For example, simply missing an operation was described as 'sabotage'. Modern Times, a rank and file paper from Cleveland, had an interview with several Lords-town workers (February 1972).

MT: 'What about the sabotage charges?'

Don: 'I've had a buddy come up and tell me that the parts have come in packed but already broken, and this foreman just went up and tagged them "sabotage". The part had already been broken.'
On the other hand another Lordstown worker was quoted as follows In a sympathetic article by Barbara Garson (op.cil.l: 'Sabotage? Just a way of letting off steam. You can't keep up with the car so you scratch it on le way past. I once saw a hillbilly drop an ignition key down the gas tank. Last week I watched a guy light a glove and lock it in the trunk. We all wanted to sec how far down the line they'd discover it ... If you miss a car they call that sabotage. They expect the 60 second minute. Even a machine has to sneeze. Look how they call us in weekends, hold us extra, send us on and off.

The struggle really began to bite. Substandard Vegas began to reach the dealers who screamed like stuck pigs. The media got hold of the story (Cleveland Plain Dealer February 20. 1972). By January, GM estimated that they had lost production of 12,000 Vegas and 4,000 Chevrolet trucks, worth 45 million dollars. On the other hand the men had gone for weeks without full wage packets or even without a full day's work having been sent home early when the 2,000 space car park was full of uncompleted vehicles. Nine hundred men had been disciplined. There were 5,000 unprocessed grievances (failures to agree). Discipline was intense. A worker was sent home for being one minute late (Newsweek,Febuary 7. 1972). Another was suspended for farting in a car. Yet another for yodelling ( Barbara Garson, op. cit.). Yet another was sent home for going for a drink of Tensions had reached fever pitch.

http://www.geocities.com/cordobakaf/weller.html
 
#15 ·
mobyss said:
I'd be wary about buying any GM product produced over the last month, or for the first few months after (if?) the UAW gets back to work. I can imagine a lot of the union types being upset about any changes to the contract, and purposefully making errors in assembling the cars. Maybe a few bolts missing from the frame, or wires cut under the dashboard, or badly shimmed front suspension. I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past the UAW to do this. I think 2008 model year GM cars could be known as the "stike year vehicles" and have many more problems and recalls than other years. This is all GM needs with the new Malibu and CTS going on line, and a much more competetive marketplace. I'm not going anywhere near a GM lot for at least a year - I can't afford to pay the price for the UAW's anger and resentment.

Sabotage is a very big no-no. It will get you fired and the local will probably shun you.
 
#16 ·
mike's 01ws6 said:
All vehicles will go through the same quality checks as the did before the strike if not more. At our plant they run them through a test on a dyno (not for checking power) and check the on board diagnostic system before they leave the plant. In this same area they set the alignment and the it is a computerized system so if the vehicle is not able to set to specifications they will send to to a repair area and they will fix what is wrong and then it will be retested before they send it on.
It's not a dyno, it is a Rolls Machine, although they are very similar. I think GM might even do EOL (End of Line) testing on Rolls. Chrysler does it on the line before Rolls.



 
#17 · (Edited)
Bravada said:
As long as they don't have to pay workers for this period, this can be actually a breath of fresh air... A number of popular models are actually not being made by UAW, and I am not sure whether the strike includes NUMMI and CAMI. I guess GM can just sit and wait until the workers realize they need to eat.
Oshawa 1 is down now.
Oshawa 2 will be down Today.
Oshawa Truck will be down in 3 days.
Windsor Transmission is down now.
St. Cathrines Engine down in 3 days.

CAMI is still going but I'm not sure for how long many parts don't come from GM US.
 
#18 ·
mobyss said:
I'd be wary about buying any GM product produced over the last month, or for the first few months after (if?) the UAW gets back to work. I can imagine a lot of the union types being upset about any changes to the contract, and purposefully making errors in assembling the cars. Maybe a few bolts missing from the frame, or wires cut under the dashboard, or badly shimmed front suspension. I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past the UAW to do this. I think 2008 model year GM cars could be known as the "stike year vehicles" and have many more problems and recalls than other years. This is all GM needs with the new Malibu and CTS going on line, and a much more competetive marketplace. I'm not going anywhere near a GM lot for at least a year - I can't afford to pay the price for the UAW's anger and resentment.
Has to be one of the most idiotic comments iv'e read on this board:mad: You think just because of a strike that workers would intentionally put unknowing people at risk, their lively hood at risk?

All your doing is putting a bug out there for people to feed off of. So in the next few posts you get some kind of agreement to validate what you said. Ridicilous.

Once again thinking the working middle class is so barbaric and holds a grudge. TO Think they would put everything thier lively hood consists of on the line ..out of spite...

IT'S good you will stay away from a Gm lot..because you wouldn't be able to see past your gl0wing misconception of the workers who bust thier butt to build a product.
 
#19 ·
mobyss said:
I'd be wary about buying any GM product produced over the last month, or for the first few months after (if?) the UAW gets back to work. I can imagine a lot of the union types being upset about any changes to the contract, and purposefully making errors in assembling the cars. Maybe a few bolts missing from the frame, or wires cut under the dashboard, or badly shimmed front suspension. I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past the UAW to do this. I think 2008 model year GM cars could be known as the "stike year vehicles" and have many more problems and recalls than other years. This is all GM needs with the new Malibu and CTS going on line, and a much more competetive marketplace. I'm not going anywhere near a GM lot for at least a year - I can't afford to pay the price for the UAW's anger and resentment.
Pleaseeeeee .....if you really believe such nonsense go and buy an import !! We don't need your pea brained business.
 
#20 ·
the strike is just a "sup" to the union members by the union before they cave to GM demands. it makes the workers feel like they are running the show BUT the union bosses know what is at stake.
 
#21 ·
mobyss said:
I'd be wary about buying any GM product produced over the last month, or for the first few months after (if?) the UAW gets back to work. I can imagine a lot of the union types being upset about any changes to the contract, and purposefully making errors in assembling the cars. Maybe a few bolts missing from the frame, or wires cut under the dashboard, or badly shimmed front suspension. I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past the UAW to do this. I think 2008 model year GM cars could be known as the "stike year vehicles" and have many more problems and recalls than other years. This is all GM needs with the new Malibu and CTS going on line, and a much more competetive marketplace. I'm not going anywhere near a GM lot for at least a year - I can't afford to pay the price for the UAW's anger and resentment.
A ridiculous post that has no merit. Stop trying to be clever.
 
#22 ·
SuperSS27 said:
WOW...do you actually believe that? Why would a worker risk their job to "get back" at GM? It would easily be traceable.
if you don't belive this ask anyone who worked at the lordstown plant when the made the vegas there. they even punched hole in the gas tanks that did not show up till the put fuel in them.
 
#23 ·
windvale said:
Chapter 11 could be GM's salvation. It would allow them to get rid of the redundant Buick/Pontiac/GMC thing w/o massive compensation to the dealers of the moribund franchises. Then GM can focus on their core brands Chevy/Cadillac.

We chide the UAW for acting like it's 1960, but GM - with like 7 domestic brands or whatever it is - still thinks it's 1960 in a lot of ways too...
Nope that part in bold I dont agree with. All those brands need are good quality product and they are getting them. Just when GM is doing its best to right themself, the UAW wants more and more which is already unrealistic. Oh and I think GMs ultimate goal is to achieve market dominance like in 1960 so there u go.
 
#24 ·
Evo69 said:
Nope that part in bold I dont agree with. All those brands need are good quality product and they are getting them. Just when GM is doing its best to right themself, the UAW wants more and more which is already unrealistic. Oh and I think GMs ultimate goal is to achieve market dominance like in 1960 so there u go.
The common misconception here is that the UAW is asking for more. The UAW is not asking for more they are just trying to mitigate the concessions GM wants them to make.
 
#25 ·
motorman said:
if you don't belive this ask anyone who worked at the lordstown plant when the made the vegas there. they even punched hole in the gas tanks that did not show up till the put fuel in them.
It is funny how people say it is not the 60's or the 70's anymore yet you dredge up stories from 30 years ago to help make a point. Many of the guys that worked there are probably dead or retired. I wonder if quality control has improved since the days of the Vega?
 
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