[mikesright]

Originally Posted by grumbles

You know what, you're right.

Toyota would do away with all of GM's ancient technology, and rightfully so, which is why I'd love to see a GM/Toyota alliance.


I love this, I absolutely love it. You are somehow convined that GM's current pushrod powerplants and their current platforms are somehow superior to those of Toyota, and you compare them to powerplants and platforms that haven't even been released or reviewed yet. The V8 in the LS460/LS600hL/IS500/whatever else is brand new, we have virtually no info on it, yet it is all of a sudden inferoir to the LS7 or whatever else.

Why is this? Why is it inferior? How do you know? Where did you get your information? Did a Toyota engineer confess to you how awesomely incredible GM's powerplants are, and how inferior Toyotas are?

What about the platforms? Did you somehow attain specs of the new Lexus LF-A's (the high-revving v10 supercar that's been tearing around the nurburgerking, for those who dont know) platform, and figure out that it was superior to the Corvette, leaf springs and all?

GM stands to gain a whole hell of a lot, as there's a lot of things they clearly aren't capable of, that Toyota is.

First, building a fuel-efficient 4cyl powerplant for it's lower-end vehicles. The ecotec is easily the least efficient engine in it's class, hell, the Vibe gets better mileage than almost any other GM vehicle.

Second, building a fuel-efficient high-tech 6cyl ohc for everything else. The 3.5 V6 Toyota has had in the IS350, Avalon, Camry, and a few other vehicles for a few years tops the brand new GM V6 going into the Aura and other vehicles, not only in hp/tq ratings, but in fuel efficiency also.

Third, hybrid systems. Toyota is undoubtedly the leader here, with more hybrid vehicles now and in the future than anyone else, and GM could stand to benefit greatly from Toyota in this area.

GM stands to gain a whole hell of a lot, and lose almost nothing with any sort of material worth.

What can GM do alone? They can be second, third, fourth, fifth best, but they will never be at the top again without some sort of help.

(Edit by Ming - See my reply, and watch the cursing)

REAALLY GRUMBLES!

You prove your stupidity everyday. GM's small-block has been on top for over 50 years. That's proof that the LS2, LS4, LS7, and LS9, as well as the numerous truck variations, are and will continue to lead the pack. Nobody does the hp numbers better than the small-block, and the package can't be as compact and lightweight as the low-profile aluminum block PUSH-ROD small-block found in your GM vehicles. Toyota still can't find the efficiency, or how to produce Active Fuel Management in their V8's. I wonder why the engines haven't been unveiled yet?

GM's new HF V6 is getting DI for 2007. Expect better fuel economy and 280+ hp from all engines. It's an improvement Toyota can't make to it's engines, because they have already gotten it, and the HF V6 is already making 267 hp without it! They (Toyota) will really need help there!

The Ecotec is one of the most efficient engines in its class, making 145 hp in the Cobalt, while getting 34 mpg hwy, while the Corolla gets 38 mpg, but only with the help of 126 hp. It also has much better torque (155 lb/ft) than the Corolla (122 lb/ft). Suddenly, the Corolla has the engine that is inefficient...

As for the comment about the Corvette, we know you're jealous of the $65,000 car, one that just happens to lap the Nurinburgring in under 7:45, and the 3.7 sec 0-60 times, all with that "antique" pushrod V8 that happens to get 26 mpg while making 505 hp, and that leaf spring suspension, which happens to beat Porsches and Ferraris all day long. We know that you've spent too much time in that ugly Camry, commuting to McDonald's...

And lastly, hybrids. GM is the leader here, not Toyota anymore. Starting in a month or two, 3 hybrid systems are coming out. One is the very inexpensive, but thrifty BAS system (which eliminates $2500 of Toyota's $4500 premium). The second is the 2Mode, which optimizes highway efficiency (unlike Toyota's system, which only provides power while passing), and the ZeroMode, which will be a full hybrid that can be plugged in, and used as electric-only at the driver's command.

Who stands to gain here? Toyota, anyone?