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TheBar2k · 05-18-2005, 01:50 PM

I think that Nissan's turn around should serve as an example for GM. Once on the brink of bancruptcy, with a line-up of sub-par vehicles, Nissan is now a force to be reckoned with. They have taken consumer sentiment to heart, and produced vehicles that reflect what the buyers want. Look at the situation with the Sentra

(http://www.edmunds.com/future/2007/n.../preview.html).

Nissan presented a prototype for the '06 replacement to consumer focus groups, and they didn't like it. Instead of producing an unliked car (a la Aztek), Nissan scrapped it and went back to the drawing board. The current sentra is begining to show it's age, but keeps up (unlike the cavalier). Better that Nissan let the current Sentra chug along than bring to market an unloved vehicle.

Nissan also doesn't seem to have a multitude of engines like GM (look at all of the V6 & I6 (I'd also include I5 as the frontier and Canyon/Colorado compete) they use in '05 (LP1, L81, LG8, LA1, LX9, LY7, L26, L36, L32, L67, LNJ, LA1, L52, and LL8) (http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/). Basically, the Nissan VQ 3.5 is a versatile, flexible engine useable in sports coupes, sedans, SUVs and minivans. The engine is employed in $40k+ Infinitis and $25k+ Nissans without cheapening the Infiniti brand. GM is building 14 different engines for vehicles that compete with Nissans that have one V6. I'm not saying dump 14 for 1, and not pretending to know the benefits or sacrifices of OHV vs OHC, but it does seem like eliminating some engines to put $$flow into development wouldn't hurt the product range. I think optional engines are a plus for GM to offer, but 14 is a lot. (The LU3 and VQ 3.5 based 4.0 seem to be applied in similar sized vehicles so no real argument there).

What if GM could use the HF V6 engines in a a 3.5 manner in the future, Buicks, Pontiacs, Saturns? Maybe in GMC's to separate the GMC and Chevy models from one another... (Ok, I know that given the dimensions of current vehicles makes that difficult, ie: Canyon, Envoy) If Saturn is moving upscale, put HFs into the VUE (dump the honda engine ASAP) and Relay? Does the ordinary customer (non-enthusiast) really know that CTS HF engine is or isn't in Buicks/Pontiacs etc? I doubt. Plus, didn't the HF originate in the Intrigue?

I was excited to hear that the 2007 GMT900's are being previewed by celebrities and dealers, but are "ordinary" consumers being given a chance to offer feedback?

It is clear that GM is making strides to turn things around, and I'm not knocking those attempts by any means. I only wonder if GM could go a few steps further to streamline their production, especially with the engines... it would work wonders to differentiate vehicles that are often blasted for being re-badges, the 3400 in the Torrent is an embarassment, it's anything BUT "exciting," and and the 3900 or HF would separate it from the Equinox.

Additionally, imagine what the Aztek COULD have been had GM involved consumer focus groups in the development process, instead of being the butt of many jokes, insults and negative reviews.

Nissan is not invincible, or perfect by any means. The Quest, Q45 and original M45 are perfect examples of missing the boat. The Maxima is hungering for an AWD option and the QX56 eerily reminds me of the bad things that can happen when cutting corners on "Badgineering", but the G,FX, new M, Altima, 350z and others are examples of the wonders that Nissan is capable of.

I know I seem biased towards Nissan, but am not committed to buying only Nissan products. I was pretty much done with them after having the headlights on my '02 Maxima stolen THREE times (with the data-dots "protection"), but the dealership did the right thing and gave me ABOVE book value for trade-in and below invoice on the Murano I currently have to make it up to me.

Having grown up with ONLY GM vehicles in my family and a Saturn as my first car, I hope GM's turn around will yield products that I'm ready to buy when I replace my Murano. I'm no expert and perhaps my engine idea has no legs to stand on... regardless, I have faith that they're on the right path. My hope for Nissan is that they continue to steal market share from the Toyota/Honda who've survived too long on reputation with uninspiring, bland vehicles. If GM succeeds with this turn around and Nissan takes away from the likes of Toyota... GM wins and thats something I think most of us (trolls aside) at GMI would like to see.

05-18-2005, 01:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
TheBar2k 2.4 Liter SIDI ECOTEC Join Date: May 2004 Location: Long Island, NY & Boston, MA Posts: 102	Re: Future Cars: Nissan/Infiniti I think that Nissan's turn around should serve as an example for GM. Once on the brink of bancruptcy, with a line-up of sub-par vehicles, Nissan is now a force to be reckoned with. They have taken consumer sentiment to heart, and produced vehicles that reflect what the buyers want. Look at the situation with the Sentra (http://www.edmunds.com/future/2007/n.../preview.html). Nissan presented a prototype for the '06 replacement to consumer focus groups, and they didn't like it. Instead of producing an unliked car (a la Aztek), Nissan scrapped it and went back to the drawing board. The current sentra is begining to show it's age, but keeps up (unlike the cavalier). Better that Nissan let the current Sentra chug along than bring to market an unloved vehicle. Nissan also doesn't seem to have a multitude of engines like GM (look at all of the V6 & I6 (I'd also include I5 as the frontier and Canyon/Colorado compete) they use in '05 (LP1, L81, LG8, LA1, LX9, LY7, L26, L36, L32, L67, LNJ, LA1, L52, and LL8) (http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/). Basically, the Nissan VQ 3.5 is a versatile, flexible engine useable in sports coupes, sedans, SUVs and minivans. The engine is employed in $40k+ Infinitis and $25k+ Nissans without cheapening the Infiniti brand. GM is building 14 different engines for vehicles that compete with Nissans that have one V6. I'm not saying dump 14 for 1, and not pretending to know the benefits or sacrifices of OHV vs OHC, but it does seem like eliminating some engines to put $$flow into development wouldn't hurt the product range. I think optional engines are a plus for GM to offer, but 14 is a lot. (The LU3 and VQ 3.5 based 4.0 seem to be applied in similar sized vehicles so no real argument there). What if GM could use the HF V6 engines in a a 3.5 manner in the future, Buicks, Pontiacs, Saturns? Maybe in GMC's to separate the GMC and Chevy models from one another... (Ok, I know that given the dimensions of current vehicles makes that difficult, ie: Canyon, Envoy) If Saturn is moving upscale, put HFs into the VUE (dump the honda engine ASAP) and Relay? Does the ordinary customer (non-enthusiast) really know that CTS HF engine is or isn't in Buicks/Pontiacs etc? I doubt. Plus, didn't the HF originate in the Intrigue? I was excited to hear that the 2007 GMT900's are being previewed by celebrities and dealers, but are "ordinary" consumers being given a chance to offer feedback? It is clear that GM is making strides to turn things around, and I'm not knocking those attempts by any means. I only wonder if GM could go a few steps further to streamline their production, especially with the engines... it would work wonders to differentiate vehicles that are often blasted for being re-badges, the 3400 in the Torrent is an embarassment, it's anything BUT "exciting," and and the 3900 or HF would separate it from the Equinox. Additionally, imagine what the Aztek COULD have been had GM involved consumer focus groups in the development process, instead of being the butt of many jokes, insults and negative reviews. Nissan is not invincible, or perfect by any means. The Quest, Q45 and original M45 are perfect examples of missing the boat. The Maxima is hungering for an AWD option and the QX56 eerily reminds me of the bad things that can happen when cutting corners on "Badgineering", but the G,FX, new M, Altima, 350z and others are examples of the wonders that Nissan is capable of. I know I seem biased towards Nissan, but am not committed to buying only Nissan products. I was pretty much done with them after having the headlights on my '02 Maxima stolen THREE times (with the data-dots "protection"), but the dealership did the right thing and gave me ABOVE book value for trade-in and below invoice on the Murano I currently have to make it up to me. Having grown up with ONLY GM vehicles in my family and a Saturn as my first car, I hope GM's turn around will yield products that I'm ready to buy when I replace my Murano. I'm no expert and perhaps my engine idea has no legs to stand on... regardless, I have faith that they're on the right path. My hope for Nissan is that they continue to steal market share from the Toyota/Honda who've survived too long on reputation with uninspiring, bland vehicles. If GM succeeds with this turn around and Nissan takes away from the likes of Toyota... GM wins and thats something I think most of us (trolls aside) at GMI would like to see.