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Originally Posted by lio45

Honda doesn't talk about their MY2011 stuff in 2008... unlike some other automakers.

Check again, Honda has been talking about the Insight, Civic, and NSX. Concept images were also released for the 2010 Civic as well and they have officially shown the Insight model.

Originally Posted by lio45

Don't 95% of people keep their cars less than 10 years anyway?

In Canada I know that the government is pushing that people don't keep their cars more than 10 years, so its a very strong possibility. Yep but people buying these hybrids are often caught between finding ways to replace battery cells after several years of driving them. The car has a poor look and you can feel all the extra weight.

Originally Posted by lio45

Tell that to the Prius... I think by itself it outsells most GM cars.

That made me laugh. The Prius sells about 180k per year in North America (based on 2007) numbers and may hit around 160k this year (sales are down 13% in Sept and 4.8% YTD). In 2005, when the Cobalt has its best year it sold 215k, in 2007 however having 200k. This year I am thinking it may end up being around 210k. Cobalt isn't even GM's best seller, the Prius is one of Toyota's best sellers after the Camry and Corolla.

Originally Posted by lio45

Everyone knows that sub-$20k compacts are bought mainly for their great handling Price and mileage don't matter at all.

Name me another company that has a powertrain that hits more than 40 mpg, is sub $20k, is not a hybrid. The only one that comes close is VW, but it is over priced. Remember how everyone said the Civic handles so much better in its class and was the reason it sold so well? The Astra for one is getting much popular in Canada because people are driving them in malls as a test drive and seeing how well it handles and buys them. Handling and the feel of a vehicle has a lot to do in the sale of a car.

Originally Posted by lio45

Honda 2008 sales (up to October 1st, the most recent data we have) are down 1.1% compared to 2007.

I call this "doing EXTREMELY well". Just compare to how GM/Ford/Toyota/Chrysler are doing this year!!!!

If you look at Honda's sales it makes sense, but it isn't doing extremely well. Honda's sales are 60% cars and 40% trucks. As most other brands, their cars have gone up and their trucks have gone down. The amount of volume that Honda pumps through their trucks (about 500k ytd) the market switch doesn't nearly affect Honda as much. Their larger trucks are down by 20-30% (with the RDX down 52%), which are the ones that are directly affected by the market switch.

You aren't doing a proper comparison in this case and if you look at the numbers it is exactly on par with the other automakers.

Originally Posted by lio45

Dramatic difference?

Yes I was one of them, I wasn't too impressed by the CTS I saw in the pictures. Now I own one.

Originally Posted by lio45

Of course. The competition is standing still, so as long as GM keeps improving, they're sure to beat everyone.

How often has Honda's "flagship" changed platform? How often have they made a dramatic change in their power train? Repeat the same questions for Toyota. Ford is the only competitor here that is likely to produce something completely different from the last gen.

Originally Posted by lio45

Because they aren't in the habit of showing their entire Camaros, in, out, and specs, 5 years before they're in the showrooms.

Since when are platforms cars? Platforms and power trains are always announced much in advance of the actual car being shown.

Originally Posted by lio45

Yep, everything the competition does is laughable compared to what GM does. That must be why GM is down like 30% this year...

GM's total YTD is down 18% Trucks are down 23%. No idea where you get those numbers from. And this is just North America, GM is up in nearly all other markets.

The entire US market is down with the exception of Small Cars. Cars are down 21%, light trucks are down 31%, Cross-overs down 22%, SUV down 47%.

Market Share comparatively to the market, GM is increasing its market share of the Top 5:

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/pag...autosales.html