[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

It shows GM marketing is a POS and that ~413 dealers were not going to create a return on the investment. You simply can not change a brands perception with one product cycle. If anyone expected Saturn sales to shoot up drastically was day dreaming. Unlike the popular belief here, Saturn having no legacy is a HUGE advantage over Pontiac. The public recognize Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, Buick, etc as GM products and will not consider them. Saturn does not have that issue. Hell, my cousin who is a huge car freak didn't know Saturn was GM until I told him.

No, GM can't change the perception in one product cycle. Even VW took two or three product cycles to change from "affordable German cars" to something more upscale than you're average Toyota or Chevy.

But as for Saturn and the "clean slate/no legacy" - this can be an advantage and can be a hinderance.

Yes, GM has an opportunity, but it also doesnt have the money to fully push the "new, repositioned Saturn" in the minds of the car-buying public. It may eventually happen, but it may also not. It didn't work for Oldsmobile, and it had just as extensive of a lineup as Saturn has right now.

As for Pontiac, even though it is recognized as part of GM, it is also has the advantage of being a "sporty brand". Many of the proposals and ideas that myself and others have stated is that this is a good thing - since GM can refine that "sporty perception" a bit to make Pontiac into a Mazda, Scion, VW type fighter. It can continue to offer a mix of RWD and FWD products, give them good handling, sharpe styling, and a compelling marketing campaign. And best of all, it wont cost GM a ton more money - because the brand is already in the ball park of where they are going with it.

All GM needs to do is pair Pontiac with both Opel for their smaller and midsized products and Holden for its larger products and they won't have to reinvent the wheel.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Simple as this, GM could not make Pontiac what it needed to be( money and CAFE related). So instead of continuing to push out the same vehicle as Chevy, just put Pontiac out of its misery.

We all know that GM would have turned Pontiac into an all RWD lineup - but whos to say that this is the only vision for Pontiac? Could they not just move into the Mazda-esque direction? I say thats worth keeping them around for.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

To the people who say why Pontiac= Holden like Saturn=Opel/Vauxhall, simple Holden as of now offers only 2 products to Pontiac: The Commodore and the Statesmen. The rest are rebadged Opel's. Two cars are not worth it to keep a whole division around. Plus, since Opel and Holden are already tied together, Holden's can come to the US as Saturns.

I agree, use the best of Opel and Holden to create a great lineup of cars. But instead of making them Saturns, I say make them Pontiacs. I laid out an argument on why Pontiac should be retained and Saturn dissolved in the Rumblings & Rants - and though I'm not going to lay out the entire argument here, there are many reasons why GM should retain Pontiac and kill Saturn.

Regardless, the status quo isn't good. GM needs to make a move and soon.