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Old 07-13-2008, 08:44 AM   #134 (permalink)
Ming
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: SE Texas
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Re: Time For a Smaller Car Standard?

Kei and what Americans call "small" cars also make up more than 50% of the market in Japan right now. Because even the Beat with a 1.2L Turbo engine would have twice the displacement of a typical Kei car, and the Kei car market alone is about 50% of the Japanese market --- add larger cars like the Fit, Yaris or SX4 and very small (by American standards) minvans into the mix and you're looking, I'd guess, at nearly 70% of the market with those "small" cars Americans like to poop on as "unuseable" so much. Tiny Kei trucks hauling stuff around a megacity and out into the countryside. HOW-DO-THEY-DO-IT!?!?! (without 300 horsepower and long arse hoods?) Why aren't the Japanese living in a 3rd world economy when they have to make do with so many Kei vehicles like 3-cylinder pickups -- against the raging instinct that says all humans desire 8-passenger crossover SUVs and huge 80's style cars with long hoods and overhangs?



And my friend's fuel economy? I asked and he said it is much better since he got a newer turbocharged car - he used to try driving the same way with a naturally aspirated Kei car and noticed the poor fuel economy and crazy RPMs since he needs to ride on the highway. He considered a non-Kei car but hates paying all of the extra taxes that the Kei cars are exempt from, and his carport is not comfortably large enough for anything else. He usually drives about 75KPH (with short bursts of 100KPH), which is coincidentally about the speed of most of my back roads Texas country commute in to the greater Houston area.

And Volkswagen? I dunno, I've never been interested. Every Volkswagen I've ever looked at was ridiculously overpriced, and it can't be getting better with the Euro. I have to think that the pricing and the less than stellar reputation for reliability (from the infamous German over-engineering) has something to do with their low sales.

I wish more people would let me have my minicar without attempts to sabotage it with a "can't do attitude". Or a reality-check that somehow sees into the future and assumes "no one" will buy a smaller car "like in Europe". Or the idea that GM must be a Dinosaur and a follower when it comes to small cars -- let the Japanese or someone else take the risk first.

But really, you seem to be on a crusade against these cars, Elk. No one's going to take away your Caprice Classic, man.

Seriously, though, I just want choices. How many Kodiaks and Top Kicks did/does GM sell to non-business/fleet buyers? There are buyers for those vehicles (especially around here in Texas), and some might even call them "unsafe" (to people around them) as vanity pickups like the Ironhide Edition Topkick. I say bring 'em on, more choices all around!

Not to direct this at you Elk, but others seem to be threatened by the prospect of Crosley-style cars returning to an American automaker. A palpable anger in some of these small car threads that goes beyond a simple interest in GM's sales figures if it produces them or safety concerns.

As a long time fan of GM's small cars, wagons and hatches, I can say with some confidence that it has been like this on most GM fansites for many years. While claiming to be "GM" fans, there are those who ridicule and resist GM's small car efforts - unless they are sporty cars like the Solstice or Fiero (and even with cars like those, in some cases).

You can't expect a majority of the typical car enthusiasts to embrace tiny econoboxes. But small cars have a lot of potential beyond Ford Festivas of yore. Look at the MINI. Or some of the very well trimmed out Japanese Kei cars with HID headlights, and technology galore. Not everyone wants to drive the same type of car that the typical GM car fan does.

I'm not sure I can argue with you effectively about Daewoo in the USA (my anecdotal satisfaction with my Forenza Wagon aside), but GM's other options, building small cars here or in Europe would not have made money sense in 2003 or so. The dollar was not in the pits like it is now.

Still, you simply have no ground to stand on if you try to take anything away from GM Daewoo's international sales success for GM, as Chevy in Europe, for instance. The Europeans were not going for Trailblazers, Ventures and Astros in huge numbers. That's the sort of car Chevy was offering over there with very limited success. It took GMDAT to turn Chevy of Europe into what it is today, a growing powerhouse. Opel has not seen the same kind of sales growth. Why?

Some people actually appreciate the value that GMDAT cars offer.

Look at Holden as an example of how small Opels did not quite work out for them, either. From what I understand, they were simply too pricey (though imported).

Perhaps engineering small cars with Opel heading it up - like the Corsa - here and building them in Mexico would have made more sense. I think we will see a lot of collaboration between GM and its international units -- more than just leaving it up to GMDAT or GM do Brasil, Detroit will have a more active role with the development of these cars knowing that it wants to build and sell them here.

Someone at GM had to have thought of that, since last I checked, Mexico and South American countries produce Opel models already. There must have been a reason that GM Daewoo came off as more attractive (aside from the styling, which GMDAT models generally have more up-to-date than South American small cars).

Or perhaps GM should have stuck with its old Suzuki alliance, and kept pushing for a Metro replacement, instead of bringing the Aveo here.

Let's hope for GM to make the best of this, not get lost in a miasma of nostalgia for a do-it-alone American GM of the 1960's (making only big cars and trucks because "small cars don't sell") to return. That's not coming back any time soon.
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Last edited by Ming : 07-13-2008 at 11:18 AM.
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